수잔 개럿과 니키 거르의 대담 - 우리 반려견들이 훈련하고 어질리티를 할 때 보는 것들.

I wish I'd taken a picture of that bar because I'm like in the white background with the white bar. They're not seeing it. They're not seeing it. Right. So and that was that was the thing that I'm like, why are these dogs crashing? They finally and they couldn't change it out because the top bar was a little bit bigger than the bottom bar because it was a double. And so finally, the second day, they found one that had a little black striping. And guess what? Dogs didn't crash the double again. So it was red, still white with red stripes. But in the middle of the red stripes, there were some black striping. So it at least it popped. Yeah. Dogs and the dogs could see it. So it's the thing that, you know, just going to show this picture a little bit bigger. Here you go. So so you can see the one picture with swagger. This is what we see. And this is a foot target that I use with my dogs when I'm ready to transfer into the ring. You can see on the right is using the dog vision app. And I'm going to get Nikki to explain the difference in my pictures and hers in a second. You can see that the white and the yellow blend together. Right. So that isn't something that we necessarily want to be using. And then this is what I've gone to since I started using the app. So this is human vision on the left, red, white and blue. Yay for all you Americans. And this is what the dogs. You can see when I went to a yellow, a blue foot target, it was really, really obvious to the dogs. Right. Really, really obvious. So why don't you explain Nikki a little bit about why people are seeing your pictures are a little bit different than mine. It's interesting. You pull up the foot target because when I was snapping the pictures last summer, that's the change I made. I started using a black foot target at the base of that A frame. But when I took that target away for one particular dog, all those hits were higher, even though she had an understanding of the target behaviors. And I think it was just because that wasn't enough contrast for that dog. And the app, I like the dog vision app. I looked at a few of them, but some of them you have to be careful because they use a sort of a greenish tone versus the yellow. And of course, the dogs don't see green. Green comes out as a form of yellow. So you don't want to be influenced by seeing green tones. The app will automatically make the images fuzzy because it's a known fact that the dogs don't have the full on clarity that are for many of them. But for some just like us, it's the opposite of that.

So that my contact lenses, you know, I'm a minus three and a half and a minus 2.75 and some of the dogs are right there. I also have astigmatism. So one thing I really want to do is I want to take the glasses off and go outside and look at something, you know, at the 75 foot mark, like a jump on my field. Dogs have 20, 75 vision. So that means that whatever we might see at 20 feet, that's how, sorry, whatever we would see at 75 feet for detail, that's how the dog would see that at just 20 feet. So I wanted to take a look at something at 75 feet without my glasses. And then I was going to put my glasses back on and pull out the SLR camera and try to duplicate what that was, right? So it can be a real hot mess if you think about it in terms of it's fuzzy. They don't see the same color spectrum. And they're really wired to detect motion versus still objects. You know, that works for prey, right? Like if they freeze, predators aren't as successful as if prey is running. So the app tends to make the images fuzzy. But you can click on, there's a little glasses icon. And if you click on that, it will sharpen it right up. So all of the pictures that I used for the study, I didn't want to get into the variable of clarity. So I wanted apples to apples and the human spectrum was clear and the dog spectrum was clear just so we could examine contrast and dominant colors. So even though we know because of the difference in the dogs have more rods in their eyes, we have more cones, the dogs are not going to see. They see better in low light than we do. Yes. And I just want to say about that because people, you know, when the dogs get older, you often hear them say, oh, I can't run in that dim barn for my dog anymore. I actually wonder if we got into more dominant bar color, if those older dogs could have a better time playing in the barns. I don't know if it's the low light per se as the wrong bar color. And I think, wouldn't it be great if down the road people took this information and not only are bar colors and tire colors and contact colors considered, but also the background, like you mentioned, like in the, okay. So in the barn we were in for World Team Trials, it was white walls. The walls in our building are kind of a gray green color and in most barns, you know, they're, they're kind of a brown color. So like, go ahead. Yeah. And all of those wall colors in the dog vision app, they all come through as yellowish shades of yellow against these yellow bottom floor coverings. Right. So white, the dogs see white. However, white really doesn't have a lot of contrast against a lot of yellow.

And the thing is that, um, so sure, even if you like, like people get offended because they say, oh, well, this app is showing things fuzzy. And how do we really know? We don't really, nobody has, you know, been able to, you know, take the eyes of a dog and stick them in their head. No, we just know by the physiology of the makeup of the eyes that this is what happens when. And so, um, this is the best and the closest guess. We know that dogs do not see the same way we do. Let's all agree on that one. No, but I think the physiology. Yeah. The physiology is so similar. And I've had at least a dozen veterinarians comment about this article. And, you know, I'm nervous. I'm not a vet. I'm not an ophthalmologist. They did a bit of reading. So fortunately, you know, they didn't come back at me and say, this is complete hogwash. You've got this all wrong. So, um, I don't think it's too far fetched to buy in that. Um, I don't think it's difficult to determine that, uh, you know, we're on that trichromatic and they're on that dichromatic spectrum. I think they can do that analysis by, uh. And I just want to share with everybody that, um, Nikki has always had this, uh, she's always been a great photographer and has always had this interest in photography. And obviously is a great dog trainer and, you know, has been on, um, several world teams. And so it's just a natural extension like that. This all came together in the way it did. I just going to share with you guys, um, this little video that I took using the app. And what I did was I blended two videos. So first you're going to see, I have two toys on the ground. They're, they're identical, but different colors. And I tell Encore to get one. And you're going to see, it's just a few seconds where it then blends into what, what we're really seeing. Okay. So I'll just share that. So I'm going to make this go big so you all can see it. And I'll just run. It's just seven seconds. Hold on. All right. Get it. Get it. So you can see that's what, what, what she was really seeing. And this is there. This is what the dog saw. And this is when you're choosing the toy yellow handle on a green carpet is maybe not the best toy selection for your dog. Totally. Yeah. Same as the orange hockey balls. They disappear too. Absolutely. So, you know, you just want to be careful when you're deciding what toy you're going to be using. If it goes back to the, the, the, you know, the bars. So I want to talk Nikki about those of you watching this, whether it's live or once this gets posted to my blog, I would encourage you all to set up a similar study to what Nikki did.

Um, and maybe even go a little step further. So a very simple pattern, agility pattern. One of the things Nikki, I think would even make it more interesting is if you did a blind cross in the middle where the dogs don't get a chance to scope that bar until the last second. Right. That's going to change it. And if we're doing a, a study where we're trying to be scientifically sound and you put a blind in there, all of a sudden it becomes a double blind. And then it's really scientifically sound. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what I'm, what I'm getting at it. So if you have a class, you're instructing or you're in a class and you've got say eight dogs in that class, what you would do is you would have really dominant colored bars. And those would be ones with, with black and, and we, and here's the thing, John back in 1996, 98, he painted some bars for me, white and black, big chunks of black, big chunks of white. And that's all I've ever trained on. And then I, I move from those to the popular colors that you'll see in trials before the dogs go into the ring. So, you know, my dogs have all been pretty good jumpers and maybe it's because of these bars that John made for me that helped grow their confidence because they could really understand. That's exactly what I've got. So, um, it's, I think it's John being like very, very, uh, finicky, finicky, finicky. There's a perfectionist. He's a perfectionist. He, it's like six inches, six inches, six inches. Um, so, so going back to, you have a class or you're in a class, you run a class, you've got a group of dogs, divide them into four. And so, so Nikki, let's set this up for them. Um, first of all, if you've got two border collies or four border collies, you want to get, if we're making two groups, we want to get similars in each group, right? So that they're balanced. So, uh, really driven dogs, um, you know, dogs that aren't as driven. Um, if you got, you know, golden retriever, put one in each group or sporting dogs, put one in each group. But the thing is, you've got to try to balance the variables. So maybe, um, if you have two goldens, let's say the first golden is going to jump the easy to see bars. The second golden first, they both jump both bars. First golden do the easy to see bars first. And then the other golden do, does the hard to see bars first. And then you flip. Yeah. You can't change two variables and then say, this is a conclusion. Right. So you can't, you can't, and you can't have two different dogs doing two different things and say, this is a conclusion. Yeah. So, so that was important.

If you look at what Nikki did, one dog did it with one way and then one dog did it the other way. And then you might want to add, like I said, add some handling into that where, where a dog doesn't get a chance to see that bar until the last second. Because that's everything. What I did was I had the dogs in most of the examples. I had the dogs run the difficult bar first. And then I had them run the easier bar second because I thought if there was any patterning from the difficult one, you know, I would see that. And what we saw was a very different striding pattern. Even though it was over one space, I did a very, I just wanted it to narrow down to something easy to see. So a distance from a tunnel to a jump in slow motion on my iMovie, I could see where the dog's height of the arc was, how many strides. I just looked at one little piece. But we did on the setup where we had them different distances from a start line jump. Some of those dogs, we started with the dominant bar first. And guess what? The white bar afterwards was better. So when they started with white first, black was different. When they started with black first, white wasn't too far off. So it almost looked like if you could give them a correct performance first and you didn't change anything and you let them do it again right away, they were able to apply that. That's really important, Nikki, because it goes back to one of the questions that keeps coming up. Okay, we've got barking, we've got telephoning, we've got everything. What keeps coming up is much like if you have really, really good grip surface that you're training on all the time. And then you go to trials and the dog is used to really good gripping surface. They're going to slide all over. So people have said to me, well, what if I train with really clear obstacles at home and then I go to trials and they get this crappy stuff. But what you're saying is we can help grow their confidence and help them understand how to do it. Yes. Yeah. And that's exactly what I was going to say next because I've had a few emails. People have said, yeah, but what if I go and I get these black bars and my dog's doing really well at home and then I go to a trial and they're all red and white bars. And I said, you know what, my dog's doing 95% of his agility in my backyard. So I would rather have that be the safe and confident performance. And who knows, you know, maybe with all that repetition, maybe they learn to cite the bar through those wings. Maybe they make different associations that they can take to a trial. I agree 100%.

You know, my little Jack Russell mix, she was rare. She just lacked confidence on triples when early in her career. And I just kept having really obvious bars with a set pattern at home, that there were certain number strides to that bar. And I kept that the same for her for years. And after, I would say by the time she was five, she was striding beautifully at competitions. So like you said, they do 95% of their agility at home. That's where we- That's the most important place. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think it's different than, you know, if you only provide perfect surface at home, then, and they've never learned to adjust their footing. They've never, you've never allowed them to go running in the woods. And then that's different. Yes. It's very different than what we're saying. Okay. So let's look at some of the other things. Oh, I got another video I'll show you. And then we'll show some of your pictures. So let's put this one up here and put that one there. So this is three different toys. All right. So three different toys from what the dog sees. And then it grows into what we see. So do you see the coloring makes a big difference? Like the Frisbee on the left, you can't really see it. And yet you can see in our eyes, wow, it looks like the most dominant toy in that picture. Right. So let's just address, you know, who are the toy manufacturers selling toys to, right? So, and with that, with that, I mean, I have, I know that agility equipment manufacturers are really concerned about dog safety, right? Especially like all the changes in our vinyl jumps lately, but there's still, they're trying to address their market. And it's people who are buying their products, not dogs. And people are really drawn to those bright colors of pink and red and yellow and green. And, you know, look what I'm wearing. I was drawn to all those colors. So I think it's very important that we realize. So here's how I'm looking at my summary of all this. I think the jump bar is the dog's real estate. I don't think we should be messing with that. And I think if you want to do your club branding on your equipment, you could do a little bit of contrast striping in a club's color on a bar. You can do some stuff on the wings. But I just don't want to mess in with end to end of that jump bar for those dogs. I'm bringing up your picture here, Nikki, of jump bars. If you want to talk about this. Yeah. So I took these this morning. It's a beautiful day here. I told Susan I was tempted to sit on the deck of just getting my pull up and running. And then I said, no, we would lose viewers if I sat there.

So I grabbed some of the bars I've been playing with. And what's interesting about that first picture is when you first look at it, you see the black bars. They also, when they're stacked like that, they're not going to be as dominant as if it was just one on the wing. But the one that's really easy to miss is that very top one that's got the candy cane red striping. The one underneath it, I mean, those are red. But at least those solid bands show better. And I think as the bars go down, you start to appreciate that more color is better versus splitting that up. You'll see that more from the dog's perspective, I think. Pull that one up now? The dog's perspective? Yeah. Okay. Good job. Yeah. So that candy cane one on the top, that's hard. The blue is a great color too. You know, because I live where I do all my study stuff I did on grass, sand, I have a fiber sand mix. I go to a barn once a week, so I got a chance to work on the dirt. And so all of my bar color choices were based on where I'm training. So I do have blue mats in my small training room. All of these colors were great. My friend Kim Collins, she's got blue mats in hers. She set up some black and blue bars. They looked great on the blue mats. I haven't had a chance firsthand to play around on black mats. So I do know that light reflects off those mats. And they're probably not appearing jet black to the dogs. But it's not just the flooring. And you mentioned this. It's the wall colors, you know. What's at their horizon that's getting the contrast to these bars? So I'm thinking even if the mats are black, if your walls are white, you may well want to try black or blue on those surfaces. And it's, like you said, it's something that people should be, like, especially if they've got the app, to get down at eye level. Wouldn't that be awesome for judges to set a course and then walk around the map and see what the dog sees? I did that at a trial yesterday. I was hopping in there, taking pictures from the, you know. We had dogs popping out of poles. I wanted to kind of know why. And there were some really dominant bars beyond the wheat poles. And the wheat poles were red and white. And there was blue. But the blue was at the top 30 bar. And the red stripes were in the dog's zone. And that's where muscle memory helps. Because, you know, those senior dogs were whipping through those poles. No problem. You saw most of the pole popping in weird places. And when I see it in weird places, I usually am suspicious to think there's something going on. Right? Like, it's not just your 10 pole popped because it sees a tunnel. Right? So.

There's a lot of people who've asked. I've seen this question come up so many times. About does it really matter what we wear? Yeah. Yeah, it does. And, you know, I say when I said, yeah, because I've been judging a lot lately. And I saw a picture. So if I'm judging, I often run a dog. And if I run a dog, I'm wearing black. And I thought, holy Hannah, you're the most visible thing out here. So now when I'm judging, I am hyper aware of just being a statue when those dogs come out of tunnels. Because they're trying to find their person. And if I'm more visible and black than their person, right? So believe me, I don't want to wear beige when I'm judging. But I'm very aware now if I'm wearing dark colors that that dog can pick me out over most of that equipment really quick. And I remember I posted a blog about this. I think it was a year ago when Swagger was coming. I don't know if it was out of a tunnel. But the judge tried to tuck in. Yes. I remember that video. And the judge was wearing black. Yeah. And I'm like, where are you going? I know. So it makes perfect sense. Because movement, number one, the judge is movement. And then number two, what the judge was wearing. So somebody else, and this is kind of a touchy subject here in Canada. What if we wore black gloves during training? A little touchy here because there's some controversy about somebody wearing gloves in the ring. But wouldn't that be great if we want our dogs to see our hands? You know, if we want to do a really tight collection and just a black hand kind of flies up. I wore black gloves because it's freezing. We don't have heated barns. That's why I wear them. But it would be brilliant, wouldn't it, for the dogs, the contrast for them to really see. So, you know, I'm going to see. You know, at the end of the day, training trumps everything. However, especially, like Nikki said, let's do what we can to give our dogs the best chance. So if it's a dimly lit barn, let's look at the contrast that we have for those dogs because the lighting isn't going to be as big a deal, right? Okay. Let's see. Let's see. I'm just checking if there's any other questions here. But I think that's a great exercise that you did, Nikki, taking your glasses off to see what, you know, what you can see. Oh, I still have to do it, but I'm going to do it. And I'm going to just memorize what that was like, grab the SLR camera, and try and duplicate that. Yeah. Oh, so I looked up this stat, right? Because I like numbers. So what percentage of Olympic athletes do you think have corrected vision? Oh. Do you like in the dogs?

I would think it wouldn't be any different than any other percentage of the population, would it? I don't know. I mean, for that age bracket. Obviously, we can look at our age and compare that to Olympic athletes. So 30%. Okay. Wow. That's a third. So, you know, for fine hand-eye coordination and all that, I mean, one-third of them. So I liken bar color to the ability to help enhance our dog's vision. So, you know, if we just grab that same number, and even if you say on a world stage of a third of those dogs even could benefit from older color. The thing about a lot of those big outside competitions is you're dealing with the environment throwing shadow. So if you've got colors on your equipment that tone into the color of floating shadow, that's why red. Red's a great color if you can see it. But through the dog vision, it tends to, when it's off the ground, outside especially, my front yard's got a hedgerow behind it. So that throws dark. And red off the ground, it just looks like floating bits you can jump through. Mm-hmm. Right? So, it's a tricky thing because if you're using a lot of red because that's your club's color or that's your country's color, again, I think we just, I'd love to see it come to a place where the bar is the dog's territory, you know? Absolutely. And just recognize red as a complementary color, not a color that's helpful for them. Okay. So, I'm just putting up a couple of, so here's one question, and it is, what is the app we're talking about? Just to clarify, it's called Dog Vision HD, and there's a little, I don't know if you can see my phone here. Higher, there. So, it's right there in the center. That's what it looks like. It looks like a cat to me, but Dog Vision HD. And so, that's what we're talking about. Another question that came up, what about the tunnels? So, what about yellow tunnels? You know, is that a problem? I think yellow tunnels are fine. I think yellow tunnels with yellow tunnel bags by a yellow contact is a lot of yellow on a yellow surface. Because green appears very much like yellow. Yes. So, the colors that appear like yellow would be all of your greens, your reds, your oranges, your pinks. You know, all of those pretty colors, the rainbow, those bright ones, they all kind of have those yellow hues to them. So, this isn't saying that you have to run out and change all of your expensive equipment, but you could do things like your tunnel bags. You know, maybe some duct tape in blue or black over the prominent edge. Like, I love those ones that are the rectangular ones, you know. So, you could just put the tape over the little square cap endings.

Yep. Right? So, I mean, just to mark it from the tunnel. Black ribbing is really good on the tunnels. So, for future tunnel purchases, I think getting the black ribbing would be good. And light ones. So, you know, there's other questions here. What about the blue tunnels? Now, blue tunnels and black tunnels, we've seen, even at the world championship level, dogs go into these tunnels and slow right down. But I don't necessarily think that's the color as much as the darkness, correct? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're just dark. Absolutely. And they see better in the dark than we do when it's pitch black. You still have to adjust. Exactly. And they're running at six yards a second. And so, we have one of those dark tunnels because that's one of the things. I wish they would outlaw them at big events or at any events because dogs do hesitate in them. And it's got to be scary to not know where you are. But you see them come up every now and again. So, that's why we always have one around and train because we just don't know. No. What people are going to see. An international standard. Wouldn't that be great for all equipment, not just the bars and – Yeah. Okay. So, I'm just going to pull – so, and there's a lot of people asking about blue. Blue is a great color for dogs. Blue – So is purple. So is purple. Yes. But it's all – obviously, if you're talking bars, it's great to have a contrast. So, something like a white and a blue. And even a red and a black is fine because the red – well, the red – it's not as great as white. But it is – Yeah. So, this one – where is it? So, I had fun. I got some little patriotic hockey tape to put on the contrast of that one. That's awesome. So, it's okay. Right? So, the little red bits show yellow, white on the black. So. That's awesome. Somebody wrote, I train with – I train with completely white bars. My dog has no problem. You know, maybe your dog has no problem. But I just – that is not a cool thing to do for dogs. Right? It's – and back in the day, we used to sometimes go internationally. They would have solid white bars or solid yellow bars. Remember those, Nicky? Yeah. I think they see the white, but I don't think the white is as defined. Depending on background. Exactly. And it's interesting because when I teach young dogs your two-by-two method, I've got some dogs that will be just fine if I slap white poles in there. And I've got others that can't figure it out. And as soon as I put in a black and white or a blue and white, they catch on. Really? Right? So – And how much of that is colored? What's that? How much of the bar do you – or the wheat pole do you have colored?

Oh, it would be different now. But the bars I have now are sort of candy cane striped. Okay. Yeah. I think with wheat poles – I just did a set in blue. They're outside. But somebody said, well, I think they thought there should be white just above the base because that would be easier for the judge to see the dog versus starting the color right at the base. I just wanted to just sidetrack one step here. When it comes to wheat pole bases and tire frames, I think those need – I think the important piece there is that you want your wheat poles and your tire to be dominant. This started that evening when you said, how did this project start? I was playing around with my tire with my young dog. That was unbelievable video that one. I know. And in that red frame with those bad 45-degree legs, she kept sitting early. And the big aha moment was when I did the freeze frame. I thought, this isn't early. That is a beautiful set point centered over the front of those angled legs. And then I went and started looking at some ETS video. And I did freeze frames of those dogs. And guess what? Like some of those jumps where those feet were sticking out 12 inches. Right. Those set points were completely centered over the front of the feet. Wow. Because I think those are really dominant parts because the bars on those jumps were white with a bit of red. You know, after your blog was published, Martina Comsova Magnoli, who, you know, she's won world championships, has been very competitive with her Malinois and her Moody. Most people know her with. And she contacted me like that night and said, wow, because she's had problems with her young border collie jumping. And she said, you know, it's only the first day, but I just went out and put black tape on all my bars. Oh, awesome. And it's so much better immediately. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. So. I didn't hear that. Yeah. Good. And it's just if you have a dog that, you know, is in that 30% Olympic athletes that don't have great sight, then making it as clear as they can possibly have it is going to increase their confidence and help them tremendously. Yeah. So the weed pull bases and the tire frame, if you're wondering what colors those should be, I've been recommending that they blend with your footing. So the weed pull base, you don't want that to be dominant. The dogs don't need to see the bases, the feet. Most of them are offset these days anyway, right? So red is a great choice for that stuff because it just sort of blends in. Cool. But you don't want the reverse of that on tires. So I've seen tire frames that are painted black and the tire is red and blue.

So there's a photo in that blog about showing a dog jumping through. And he completely thought he was to jump over the red strap holding the tire to the frame. And that strap was connected to the tire on a red chunk of tire. And in the dog vision app, that red band and red chunk, it just looked like a floating shadow. And you saw a blue piece of tire above it and a blue piece of tire below it. So it was like he was trying to jump through the two blue pieces. Wow. And I think of some of the colossal tire, you know, that Buzzy used to have. Yeah. It makes me want to go back and look at some of the footage of Buzzy doing tires. And some of the things that he did to himself going through tires was unbelievable. So your wee pulls now will just, if you were starting today with a young dog. Yeah. So the set that I did, I went for blue. So my big vision is, wouldn't it be cool if there could be a standard that in any agility ring, your single bars were blacks, let's just say. Your double and your triple and your tire and your weave pulls were all blue. And then they would know, no matter where they went, what venue, they would walk in and they would know exactly. Those are the singles and those are the three-dimensional jumps, right? The biggies. Wouldn't that be great? Yeah. Dream big. Yeah. No, that would be awesome. Okay. So I don't want to hold you up any too much longer. If you guys have any questions for Nikki, I'm just scrolling through and I will definitely post them here. And this is, you know, this is something that's new. So it's going to evolve, right? And people are going to take that great information that you put on your blog and then they're going to try different things. And I mean, and that's why I thought let's get Nikki on. And we'll talk about this because if we can get judges to start looking at that and if we can get, you know, people as a movement. If we can say, hey, don't put that red and white bar on the top of the double and the blue and white one on the bottom. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. And so 10 bucks, right? 10 bucks to get a couple rolls of duct tape. And it's so doable. It's not like in Canada where, you know, we all did the big swap out for clubs to get the vinyl jumps. I'm thrilled we got the vinyl jumps. I kind of want to know if you could turn back time, how many of those crashes could have been prevented with just better colored bars. So, you know, you pick up a couple of rules of tape. You play with this. You have fun at your class just like you suggested. You know, split your dogs into group. Run these guys on whites first and these guys on black and then switch them.

And see for yourself. I am now committed to all of my foundation puppy classes. They're only training on black bars. I want all these dogs. I don't know what their vision is down the road. I want all of them to be able to start with the best paw forward seeing this stuff, right? Okay. This is another great question. Again, going back to one of the World Team tryouts. In Canada here, a lot of the doubles, I can't remember. They came in from one manufacturer in the States. Not doubles, the wall jumps. They're a light, like a baby blue with white toppings that were like just on there really loosely. So this question is, what would be the best color for a wall and the top of the wall elements? So I look back at this wall and it was like a light color blue and then the pieces on the top were white. And I mean, I don't think Swagger ever took one without taking it down. And then one year, Thomas Trey was judging tryouts and he looked at this wall. All that he did was take some blue tape, just like you had, and he made a little X on each one of those pieces. Now it is like three or four years later, we're still having trials at the same building. And Tommy's still little blue X's are on the top of all these pieces. And Swagger never touched it again. Never touched it again. Couldn't do that wall jump without taking the top pieces off. Yeah. But they don't see it on a white, white walls, white little tops with no contrast at all. Same as the long jump, right? You've got your five pieces. And my, my big guy, I mean, he's 23 inch tall border collie, but he, he always looks surprised if he touches that fifth board. Cause it's a white board with a little bit of red striping. Let's put, instead of putting the stripes this way on the long jump board, let's just put on the edge of the long jump, black striping on each board. Yep. Ta-da. Yeah, that's it. So pretty easy fixes. And, you know, if you start with duct tape, you can always peel it off, but I think people should play around with it and just, just see, you know, see if the dogs look more confident or they running more forward or are they guessing? I chose to use the dogs that had some early takeoff or adding strides for that study because I thought, wow, you know, if they can show a difference, then it's surely going to just benefit every category. I was quite surprised it benefited them. And that's what, you know, there's a comment here from Beth Rogers. She said, maybe this should have been considered on some of these dogs that have been labeled ETS. That's exactly what you're saying. Yeah.

That's what I'm kind of, you know, there's a lot going on in my head about it all, but I don't think their visual system is that different than ours. You know, whenever I say to students or people at trials, okay, so you go out there without your glasses on. And they laugh and I go, why are you laughing? And then they just keep laughing. And I said, but why are you laughing? And they said, well, I couldn't do it. I said, so maybe colored bars or their version of glasses. That's pretty easy. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. Okay, Nikki, I'm not going to hold you up anymore. Thank you so much. I have some hearts for Nikki for spending some time with us. Thank you for having me. Yeah, it has been brilliant. And everybody that's watching, then I encourage you to try this with your dog. And like Nikki said, we're going to start with the lighter colored bars first to see if you can see a difference. Like that's, and if you see a difference. And you can even do this. This might be a great, if we're going to, because you said starting with the good colors first, you don't see much of a difference. Going back to bad. What if you did half the class did good or crappy bars followed by good bars? And then other half of the class did crappy bars followed by crappy bars? Yeah. I will say, though, that when I ran a control group of dogs that had no jumping issues, they ran equally well on the white and the black. So people should set this up. There might only be one or two dogs in your whole class that might show a difference. But you just have to video it and then slow it down and play it back and then see if you can see the differences. But even if good jumping dogs are great, here's the thing. Number one, with these dark bars, we're starting all the dogs off with great confidence. And number two, we're guessing, you know, if we compare it to the human race, 30% of these athletes have a struggle with eye problems. Why not make this possible for all dogs? Or make it as possible as we can make it for as many dogs as we can. Yes. And make the dominant parts dominant on the equipment. Perfect. Thank you so much, Nikki. Thank you. Great job with you. Thank you, everyone, for being here and for your great questions. Bye. Bye. Okay.