개 훈련 개념과 경계 이해하기: 래리 크론 & 니노 드로와에르트

working and you're getting the results you like and the dog is being treated properly and fairly and the dog is in good spirits well then keep doing what you're doing right but well unfortunately that's not the case for everyone because there are people with genuine good intentions and they're being stopped by either their clubs governments or even organizations that forbid you to use any of those tools if you were ever to compete of course they're not going to come to your home and check you in the club or whatever but when there's snitching going on and there's pictures popping up or videos and they get notice of this they might give you the repercussions of banning you from that sport or whatever even though they know in that specific country it is allowed they could still ban you so for example you go to the world championships as a French team and in France e-collars are allowed but let's say they got videos of members that are in the team competing and they send those videos to the organization well then the organization can kick you out which is what happened I think last year or two years ago so they actually kicked out the whole team based on footage that they took at home even where it's not illegal but just knowing that they were using it got kicked out so yeah it's not about oh we're having good intentions we're good for the dogs we're having you know a structure to teach dogs things with this tool and it's doing magnificent things that alone today is not enough anymore you know see what organization who's you know what country are you at um you know all that kind of stuff like commercials like we've talked to people before that you know have commercial interests and talking only positive even though they know it's not always the best advice for some people but they're not going to say it because they're now in The only positive bracket or box which you know keeps them from giving genuine advice sometimes and that's also a problem so this is not just about oh there's two guys here gonna talk about e-collar with good intentions I do feel from the responses that we get there's a lot of issues with people that either can't get one of those callers it's illegal or they're I mean they want to do the best for their dogs they want to you know also invest in education but the government is just not allowing them but anyways we can talk about politics a little bit later when when those questions are getting answered of those people but I think it's definitely something that you know Larry you and I I think we have followers like across Nations and across uh continents so uh yeah we have people from all over the

world on here right now hey Wallace how are you sir from all over the world so this is definitely a conversation you know people are are waiting on so of course we'll get into mechanics in the way we we use the tools as well as everything else but yeah unfortunately the politics are a big part of it now because people who do what we love to do no matter what your your area of dog training is in whatever your discipline is in to Be an Effective big time you know and everything starts in Europe and if they start Banning Tools in Europe which they have then they start breeding you know Banning breeds in Europe which they have everything moves over this way you know and and meaning you do things a little differently but a lot of the same intentions in the way right like I work with so many average dog owners and a lot of dog trainers too and through the seminars I've I've been fortunate enough to work with hundreds and hundreds of people over the past few years if not thousands and what's disturbing Nino is the lack of understanding on just the basics the basic communication the classical conditioning how dogs learn that's out there and the bad advice and training that people are getting and paying a ton of money for like they go through trainer after trainer paying thousands these are the same people that struggle teaching dog with a leash or with food and their trainers are throwing e-collars on the dogs and they're making it much more difficult for people like me and you and other people that are trying to represent dog training and the tool in the proper light and so for several years you know nothing that I do is sexy or fancy I've always focused on the average dog owner because we all have a habit in the dog training world where we almost communicate with each other on a whole a lot we almost Market to each other dog trainers right all the videos and everything but when it comes down to it the real numbers are in the average pet owner the average dog owner and that's why the purely positive people are winning these battles because they have the numbers of the average dog owners that's where the so-called balanced trainers the egos come into play and we can't agree within our same group you know what I mean we talked about the ripping apart of trainers and stuff so the way I have shown the e-collar for years is very simple very basic and I've structured it in a way I didn't create anything I didn't invent anything and I'm always very clear to say that and the way I use it I have my people get away from having to use it very very quickly because it becomes such a beneficial instrument in

their Arsenal to give their dog a much better life where the dog can be off at a park running like a real dog needs to do but yet to this day we still have so much confusion on that you know yeah I agree it is a numbers game I mean just like any state prison I guess in the U.S you know who who runs who runs the yard the the you know the race with the biggest number okay might be a little weird um comparison but that's what it is it's like yes we're being flooded with all positive trainers or people that have different kind of breeds or you know their voice is just so loud compared to you know the the trainers that you know use this and and try to educate people on this topic um that we're just outnumbered we're being you know also sold out because these people know that there are some competent you know trainers out there as well but the fact that some European countries don't even make an exemption for professional trainers that have been proven to be out there for years and doing good stuff and great stuff even for law enforcement helping agencies even they get banned that means there's no debate even about are you competent or are you skilled to do this this is just about all right we decided that regulation is going to cost too much effort we don't want to do that so you and I are collateral damage uh you not yet I would say not yet but I will be soon because the band has also been approved in Belgium so from you know within less than five years we're gonna face the ban also and by since the first of January this year the ban in Holland is activated so no longer any e-collors but you can can you imagine like a country like Holland who they have such a history with the kmpv exporting dogs you know their training and you can agree and disagree on the methods that they've used but you're not going to tell me that in that country that kind of tradition there is nobody capable of doing this and there's not an exemption not even close so and they try to lobby for it and that was the hunting Lobby because they have a little bit more big numbers than you know the the protection work trainers there was nothing to do about this that's the way it was going to be and we're just following like sheep other countries because the it all started somewhere in either in Scandinavia and Switzerland and and everybody just jumping on that same uh boat and uh we're here up right so we all gotta be one and uh yeah that's what it is and like you said if one state in the U.S is gonna you know try to install a band because it's just a populistic decision as well I mean if you're a politician and and people that don't

know what we do or not in our line of duty or job and they would ask them would you use electricity on a dog uh well no are you okay with that we banned this stuff that this would be done forever yeah sure yeah that yeah why would you ever do that so I can see that but of course we're being completely dismissed completely like you know it in the US things might be a little bit different because you know the the laws with guns and all that kind of stuff is also you know uh is not as severe as Europe for example they still leave you that piece of freedom and choice of living and and what you're going to do with your dog and how you're going to train it but I don't think it's going to last like you said you know because if let's say the entire European uh continent is Banning it and the US also as a you know as a Western Country will try to you know align with the ethics and the morals of a of a western uh Community as as a continent even so I think it's going to follow anytime soon I'm not sure when but I think it will be but that's of course another discussion uh but let's just go with what we can do today and that is the people that are still able to use this tool or purchase it or or want to make the best out of it let's help these people today and uh and yeah but these are concerns that are definitely on the back of my head and many other trainers like hey there's some people probably tuning in now that you that have one at home but they can't it can't be on a picture but you know being caught with a collar on their dogs they can't be on a video so you can't take you might just shoot a video of your nice training session oh no you can you know if anybody sees this I'm going to be in trouble it's like what the what's going on like you're doing a fantastic job you're you're a champion why can't we just display what you do and all the great stuff that you the skill that you put into this so we got so if that means if I want to videotape you we gotta like make it look like you know but you actually do that's a tough one for me because then we're trying to fake things and faking things is is something I've never liked and same as with the police when I was at the police uh working and I was admitting that I was using any color and stuff like that and the federal police was the governing you know uh entity that would tell you what you could use and not and they knew I'd use it and they tried everything to stop me they tried literally everything they even wanted to penalize me like you know uh legally stuff like that because but they couldn't because in Belgium there is no ban but just you know I I was like yeah

well I'm not gonna pretend we have to tell people what we're doing and that's why we're here today Larry so all right let me ask you this what do you think is the biggest misconception or mistake people are still making with the tool to this day 2022 there's no reason an excuse because there's plenty of good information out there for people to turn to but to be honest with you Nino I see people turn into the correct information and still struggle so why do you think they're still having so much trouble utilizing the tool in a way that the general public when they see it they go whoa that's actually pretty cool not what I thought it was because that's what I see over here I see people still walking around with the tool on the dog relying on it constantly using it hundreds of times a day with with no beneficial effect and that's what I steer my people away from doing what about you all right that's a great question and I think that deserves a you know an answer that is not just going towards oh this is a misconception or whatever look if we're going to give validation to people that we believe as good dog trainers who validates these people well usually judges in the sport right they will tell you oh X or Y they've got x amount of uh performances done and they got awarded with these kind of trophies because of their excellence in technique because the dog was showing such capabilities so what a trainer does in the competition he is trying to Showcase what this dog can do within the sequences that are you know being told he needs to Showcase and he can win points by showing how how responsive the dog is how fast the dog is how high he can jump so you're literally going to show the entire skill set of the Dog and Its talents and and overall great performance and then a judge gonna say well this is great I'm gonna score you with 189 whatever so that tells people other people in the world like hey if you're looking for good dog trainers we've got to be looking for people that have gotten this validation of Excellence all right that's how it usually goes now let's find these people and then you want to talk to these people but these people can't genuinely tell you that they've used the tool because the organization does not allow you to use it to roll over a country that doesn't allow you to use the tool well now we're going to believe a fake story because they're not going to tell you what we do but we can't really tell you they're going to say they're going to look you in the eye and say of course we don't use it all right so now you believe well all this was possible we could have reached the

highest peaks in this in this sport without using it but that's not the truth and now we've now we're creating a problem because we make a lot of people now believe look these guys done it without look at their performance look at their their wins look at their trophies they they've done it all and there's not because I mean yeah they've done it all but they can't tell you the true story they can so if you don't know the whole story what reference can we tell people if you're saying hey look up this dog trainer X Y or Z look at the performance like because if if you want a reference or a validation you can't just say well look at this uh freestyle videos of Nino for example because not everybody takes validation from this still every day people call me a circus artist because you know why is this necessary whatever there's some people that see value in it in the technical side of things and those performances but still today the reference is is the sport let's face it and if these people can't even say what they do or what they use or they have to lie about it because they have to do workshops and and and basically monetize their trophies because I mean those trophies not gonna pay any bills but if you get invited to do seminars worldwide now you can pay bills now there's people that want to you know buyers ticket here what you have to say but you're not going to give them the whole story so they're gonna leave with an incomplete story and let's face it you and I are a kneecaller user if you know what an e-collar can do and for yours you know what you say on the basic level but also on the super advanced level in high competitions the remote control that you can establish with minimum interventions it's like it's day and night difference for somebody that does not use this but there you go you you go ahead and tell people that you know while you do no now we're creating a liger and we're telling people hey just just go out there and uh and do 50 of what this guy does but I mean the e-collar has such a such an impact on your overall outcome and in control because if you know how to communicate with it and we'll talk about this and if you could do it subtly I mean people that wouldn't know the dogs got a collar on let's say we put a scarf over it that would not even tell they couldn't even tell if the dog was getting that e-collar communication so you could do it so subtle that it's something that you can't even see with the eye even if you're looking at it you get did you really get something but people see the obvious what do you see ah people like storage dogs that start screaming uh you know dogs that feel

like a complete mess it's rest out that's what people see and that's very I mean that that strikes you because like hey what is this BS man this gotta stop how do we stop this well guys uh you can sign this petition and then we can stop this you know immoral uh abuse of these dogs but hey let's face it if if you're just going to spend thousands on a caller or hundreds and in education you're your intention is not to you know to to have a dog that crumbles that cries that screams this is beer this is this is not going to happen I mean I assume that's not your you know idea of why you want to purchase that tool in the first place but it does happen but let's face it here and this is something that strikes me the most I was a police officer and I still am an active but active duty on the absence of leave in the 18 years in the 18 years and 12 years of those 18 I was responsible also to look for uh dog abuse like uh cases and stuff like that because as a canine unit you have that responsibility to also follow up with that never in those 18 years was I called to investigate e-collar abuse but do you want to know how many times we got called for abuse with a dog that is not equal related all right so that means everything that goes to these courts and the judges that do find these people are given sentences right based on the abuse well it didn't have anything to do with an e-collar so how on Earth if those statistics tell you that they're all I mean the the fines and the and the sentences given by these courts are not equal related why do we have to install this entire law of something that is on paper not even the biggest problem their biggest problem is with nasty people that do nasty things and that shouldn't have any animal in the first place but why is this the screen so loud of an anti-e-collar stuff whatever and abuse but of course there's cases but let's just compare the cases of abuse without a caller you they outnumber since we've been talking about numbers they outnumbered the ones of abuse but a caller by thousands it's crazy so it's like that then it becomes a political thing because look somebody goes in this is exactly what happened here the anti-lobby they got an appointment with the minister of uh agriculture those are usually the ones that you know look into this stuff and they zap with an e-collar with a Doctor by the way on the max it's like oh right oh that hurts or we're not going to do that to a dog or we well of course you don't want to do that to a dog because well also now that he feels pain every dog feels pain absurd as it is but anyways his sensation was so like oh

well we can't be doing that we're I mean we're uh people with morals and with ethics and standards and I mean we're you know contemporary and this time and age we're not going to do that to our animals because these animals live with us they are serving us they're you know loving us why would we ever do that so if you're coming in from that emotional uh point of view well then it would be a shame that that's your intention but of course they don't know if there's levels to this there's other dogs but higher dries no pain thresholds there's also the way you introduce it the overlays you do mechanically the all the stuff that you teach so it becomes like almost an invisible leash like none none of that was ever talked about it was like do you feel this pain let's stop this pain okay you can stop this pain look just a few videos ago I was doing something with any color and somebody asked me would you do this to your daughter would you would you put like well hold on a second here why are you comparing a dog to my child okay and first of all the dog you see in the video that's like that's a high drive dog you know that's a dog that needs to be trained and controlled like I don't understand the comparison to people at all but that said let's say we're talking about uh discomfort yeah if that's the you know we we can honestly say that in some cases e-color can give discomfort well do you know any kid that has ever went to adulthood and never had any discomfort by the way and you as an adult is isn't that what we preach all day these days it's you know find discomfort that you know no more comfort zone get out of the comfort zone be comfortable with discomfort oh yeah but if you want to train a dog all of a sudden that doesn't apply like this dog should be free do whatever you want eat whatever he wants you know uh attack every dog that he wants what is that where does the world coming to why do we have to explain as professionals proving we're trying it you do things better and more efficient and more Humane and more dog friendly but nobody's listening to you on me Larry they're listening to the the people with the 5 000 signatures or forty thousand or a hundred thousand telling you to stop this so I'm sorry that I'm going on about this but that's where it all starts this is the this is the the problem like I even have to explain myself to my own family they're like by the way Nino you use Z colors right yeah I do Mom I I do it's just why yeah because Eco is isn't that nasty well you know you don't train nasty but like isn't that nasty like how do you feel about that so I that tells you everything I've been doing this

professionally for years I've been at the unit for you know over 10 years they're still asking me is that okay you see so the perception of of people that don't work dogs and they hear this e-collar Electric stop this okay so I can see where that comes from but as a politician you shouldn't be led by you know what what people say without any expertise you have to hear the experts but the experts the lobby with experts was you know a bunch of Manufacturers that were that were not interested in being in the lobby in the first place and the manufacturer is somebody that makes profit so he is not a neutral voice all right so if the manufacturer is not neutral I could see that okay who's next then the Vets okay the veterinarians look me and the professor Mark we've talked to you know a professor that have done that has written multiple multiple articles on a European level and her research was absolutely disgusting why because it was just 20 30 dogs and then what kind of breed oh yeah that breed with that kind of Competency oh let's see if they have stress not like all that kind of stuff like first of all you and I know that stress to a dog is not just coming from a tool you know a Handler himself without any tool can cause the most stress to a dog so how are you going to measure something if you know nothing about the competencies of the Handler if you know nothing about the drive and the skill set that the dog is capable of and you're just going to randomly look into a a case and then write studies and stuff like that like I was like well let's if okay the manufacturers are not being hurt got that but the Vets being you know appointed or assigned to this are obviously biased also right they're not working with the kind of dogs that we work with Larry they're not solving these problems either doctors and professors usually do not train dogs it happens but that's that's not that's not usually the case so now now who's going to talk on our behalf now oh do you think they're going to call Larry cron or Nino to come and talk about e-collars no of course not of course not so who's left now oh the hunting Lobby well you know what they said it literally that was the statement of the cabinet they said look Hunters there's a whistle that you use right why don't you blow the whistle and reward your dog instead case closed it's on paper Larry I could show you the transcript yeah I can show you the official response of the cabinet yeah but you know what the problem here is Nino and almost opposite of what you're saying what you're saying totally get makes makes perfect sense over here for example I saw a post on an e-collar group on

Facebook the other day just e-collar group and I don't do things in groups I stay out of groups every now and then I see something and I can't help but say something it was a young trainer with a little dog on a place board using an e-collar and the dog was struggling okay it was very clear that the dog wasn't sure what's going on there was a lot of confusion it just wasn't good training and she asked the question and it was an e-collar based question some of the responses is exactly why we're still having so much problems with this tool someone chimed in you have to dial up the e-collar keep going higher until the dog complies because see to this trainer's opinion the dog's just being defiant okay that right there is an individual that knows nothing about training dogs and I wasn't that kind to her response because she was so arrogant with the response that she truly believed she knows what she's talking about and she doesn't so it's people like that that you have a little dog struggling visibly struggling just with confusion and now you start amping up an e-collar and you see the dog really confused and when it finally figures out how to make the discomfort stop they're like see the dog knew what it was supposed to do it was just fighting it and that's such [ __ ] and it's people like that that are crippling crippling this industry I watch people when they come into my seminars right when anyone has an e-collar on I watch and a lot of these people are professional dog trainers and I'm watching the receiver and there's times I watched that red dot on the receiver going off non-stop boom boom boom boom because they come in and they're so nervous about their dog misbehaving in front of other trainers they get stressed out and they're boom boom boom hitting the dog to tell them you better better behave in here and I'll say that I'll say to them why are you hitting the e-collar what do you mean they said well I'm watching you hit that e-collar probably 15 20 times within two minutes why and then they know I I saw and they'll explain to me why I say well okay does it work you're like well what do you mean I'm like how many times do you hit that e-collar throughout the day 10 well yeah more than 10 yeah maybe a hundred Maybe is a change anything is it working well no then why are you doing it and see so for the mass numbers the mass numbers the average dog owners and a huge segment of dog training the majority unfortunately they don't understand how the dog learns before ever putting a knee collar on a dog and so that it's so easy to push a button you know and people get so Trigger Happy and that's something the way I do things

can I do things a little differently yes but I know that everything we do anyone with any kind of a platform anything we do people pay attention and then they try to copy you and if you try to show hey look how great I can make my dog with a gas pedal for the e-collar people are going to cause a lot of harm to dogs because they don't understand the process that went in before that right so I tell people can I make can I use an e-color and make my dog's obedience better faster sharper absolutely do I you never see an e-collar on my dogs for a reason I want people to understand my dogs are really well trained with nothing on okay with nothing on I'm very conservative through that whole training process for people with the e-collar that conditioning phase that interim much slower than they'd have to be but I do that on purpose because it forces people to start learning to have some kind of connection with the animal and to spend some time learning how the dog responds to things and they are so much less likely and I know this for a fact because I've done it for years there's so much less likely to cause any harm to their dogs so when I'm working with someone whether it's a seminar whether it's a private lesson my people don't cause harm to their dogs with e-collars but yet you have people with huge internet platforms much bigger than me I deal with their people constantly through seminars and private sessions and phone consultations to where the dogs are completely destroyed and they were destroyed because of the e-collar not solely because of the e-collar but because they had no idea what they were doing so if you pay four or five thousand dollars for someone to train your dog and they say this dog blows up when it sees a dog on the street and they tell them put the e-collar up to 127 And when they see the dog here here's an exact example that I talked to the other day the dog gets reactive in the house with the other dog okay put the dog in the crate a pit bull mind you a pit bull turn the e-collar up to 127 when the dog's in the crate hold the button down for 10 seconds that's someone paying thousands of dollars for this advice so see that's what I see 365 days a year dozens of times a day I talk to people like this three or four years ago when I started talking about this five years ago people would tell me I'm full of [ __ ] I'm trying to be holier than now and build my own business this is no you don't understand this is going on I'll never forget one trainer said to me I don't believe you because I don't see it the funny part was he didn't see it because he was one of the people doing it that I hear about

all the time so of course he's not going to see it or hear about it you're one you're one of the suspects you're one of the problems okay and people still can't get over that fact that it's not just a hammer so someone Steve Washburn hey Steve he said e-collar is a communicative communication device it's not to train a behavior in or out of a dog well that's not exactly true Steve and so that statement what exactly does that mean because see there's a lot of people that have the e-collar on and they say oh no it's not to punish a dog it's not to teach a behavior it's just a communication device well what does that mean a cell phone's a communication device but I can tell you exactly what I want an e-collar can't do that right unless there's something really tangible attached to it so I make it very very simple for people very simple for people you have to understand positive reinforcement before you do anything right how to teach a behavior if you don't know how to teach a behavior with a leash or with food you shouldn't be moving on to anything else then you ask someone to describe negative reinforcement explain how it works and they're going to recite the quadrants just reciting the definitions of the four quadrants doesn't mean you could train a dog or even know how they really work properly right so if negative reinforcement and it's most sciencey you'll ever hear me get negative reinforcement is just the ability for the dog to escape and avoid pressure no matter what kind of pressure it is let's think about that in terms of the e-collar right people say well why do you ever use the e-collar before a command or when would you use it after man for me just me very simply I only used to use the e-collar as negative reinforcement after I gave the command when the dog was learning then someone far superior than me taught me hey if the dog's ability to escape and avoid the negative reinforcement is taught this way don't you think they would learn it much better if they learned how to escape it both ways in the beginning come on the pressure give the command turn it off yeah that makes sense so when I started doing that which lately became very controversial right when I started doing that for the first couple of days the learning and the behavior the attitude of the dog went through the roof everything got better right so now people like to say like that e-collar is used before the command like forever not for me so my whole goal with the dog is I spend maybe two days in that conditioning phase where I'm using the recall and the send away and using that e-collar before the command that continuous for very

short moments with positive reinforcement negative reinforcement pot to teach that dog how to escape that stimulation right that's it because the end goal for me and the people I work with is if the dog's going to learn how to avoid it they first have to know inside and out how to escape it correct how do I turn this off so the first two days three days tops that I'm conditioning a dog and they know in the beginning like whoa what is that weird thing but I call the dog or give a little leash pressure and they know that and it goes away and they get rewarded now the dog starts learning oh I know how to remove that right if they know how to remove it inside and out they know how to avoid it now after a couple of days when I say hey Fido come and it doesn't come and I tap after and he goes oh I know how to turn that off and he comes to me I'm no longer using the e-collar before the command contrary to which some groups out there like to believe but at the same time and you tell me if I'm wrong people like you and many others that use like a gas pedal in performance you could do it both ways you could do it multiple ways when it's not such only used as an aversive we could do incredible things with that tool as I have shown for myself you have shown constantly many others have shown right but you have the average dog trainer representing the numbers and the average dog owner who puts that thing on and they don't like what the dogs oh they pick up the remote and the dog cowlers it's not what it's supposed to be like and so those are the people that when these governments these agencies come after us those are the demonstrations they use they're not using my videos they're not using my dogs because they do they lose yeah they'd say well what's the problem with this here okay so I take my clients that have no dog training ability zero nothing some of the worst handlers you'll ever see they have no knowledge of how a dog learns they go out and they get a high drive working dog or even worse sometimes a high drive bird dog that they have no control over and by the end of the first week they're at a regular park or going on a hike and their dog is running free and it's never experienced anything to destroy the dog but yet these governments and these people these purely positive people want to take that away from not just the people from the dogs you're going to tell me you care about the dogs when you want them confined to a leash the rest of their life how many dogs are going to get killed when you tell someone use a whistle and food and your dog will come back to you when it's chasing a deer how many dogs are going to get hit by a car

right but these are the things we're not doing so I watched I watched a a video the other day on e-collar stuff and it was real long video and it went on forever and I'm always open-minded and they had good intentions but I watched the whole thing because I wanted to see if I'm the average dog trainer or the average dog owner even worse did I get anything out of that that's going to help me and educate me and the answer was no nothing I'm still just as confused right so for me there was a time where I said I'm done it's not worth the headaches you know but the feedback I get from so many people all over the world you know you know when I get someone who says this changed my life with my dog why would I stop doing that there's there's no way but there's still so many misconceptions how I use it how you use it how other people use it that are doing good things with dogs and so for me during this live I just want to answer any questions people may have they probably have less questions for me because I've been so open about everything I said this to you before we came on live I talked to so many hundreds of people every month you know that go through every kind of program possible and I know a lot of people that have taken your course that are currently in your course and they're extremely happy I haven't met one person that doesn't love it right and I don't have to say that but they not only because of the results they're getting with their dog but they're having a blast doing it so people are going to be interested and you don't have to give away all your secrets or anything but you're never going to be hurt by explaining the way you utilize the e-collar a little bit so people see a different side of just from my end you understand what I'm saying yeah well thanks for uh for saying that but um I'm hearing a few things here that we need to clear because there's a lot of information to absorb and the things that you say stem from your personal experience and what you've seen and and what you work on your environment people that call you and and ask for help and then what You observe and and the conclusions you make um there's two things well you said the caller is a tool that can be used to avoid an escape so how do you teach a dog that he can understand how to avoid by showing him with the leash by so but I already hear Larry is multitasking he is using his analytical ability to see what the dog is doing like in the moment then he's making enhancements as he's showing the dog where to go to so he's using his so first You observe right your brain processes then you pull the leash with your hand but you do it slightly not

jerking so that kind of you know finesse that you put into this is you know how you gently show that dog on top of that you're pushing a button when the dog complies slightly into the direction you want or it shows the behavior that you're interested in you stop that pressure of the leash you also stop the e-collar on top of that you come with a reward Larry there's a lot of things you're doing that for you right or or something that yeah because for you this is almost unconscious Behavior because these skills are being applied at the same time in your subconscious there's no way that Larry says must pull leash first then hold button release no that would that wouldn't that wouldn't be possible then you wouldn't be Larry nobody would know you because you'd still be struggling so you find a way to combine all these skills and then of course if you look at new people that come in and they get a high drive dog the higher the drive of the dog is the more fast the processing needs to happen because you really literally don't have time they're already in your face they're already moving all right so that means as soon as you get a higher drive or a faster dog that process needs to speed up so how do you get that um you know dexterity in your fingers and and that that you know overall comfortable feeling or confident confidence in yourself that you can pull off three different things maybe before even if you're using a clicker and maybe even five if you're gonna like drop a ball on top of that what stops people then because I explain I put it in the open those are some of the skills that you will need okay so what so what's the problem now if we open up about the skills that you need to you know uh comprehend and apply there's something called thriver behavior and I'm going to give you an example and this is scientifically validated in the psychology so it's not just a story I make up this is validated that means it's it's true and if you are let's say a try or no I'm gonna a a be strong that's one of the control mechanisms of the one of the five main drivers people can possess that means as a person you will take always you your aim is when you're losing control you will take responsibility of the task that was given to you or you accept it or you wanted to complete and you're going to make sure that this result is guaranteed so they're not I mean that is something that is sacred to you by default it's a driver how that it develops I mean that's a different topic we could spend the hours on that but anyways what happens is if this driver is activated your subconscious behavioral patterns take over and in this case if people

work with an e-collar they might revert to pushing harder longer or on higher levels because they want to ensure that this result can be achieved for themselves if you're a try hard that could be even to impress somebody else that you can come back and say look what I've done with this dog in x amount of time you see I'm capable you see I'm confident all right so with on guided some of it unconscious guided behavioral patterns because you don't know what up what your control mechanism even consists of on top of that you're you know trying to learn all these new skills and what's health is is a combination of unique skills that you apply simultaneously so we're expecting now as dog trainers to go into talent development and control mechanism you know behaviors of people we're I mean some people are still figuring out the four quadrants we're going to add more on top of that that's that's tough and I think that's why the e-collar has a reputation if I ask any any high level trainer what do you think of the e-collar they always respond the same thing when used by somebody who is competent with somebody who knows what he's doing somebody has good intentions I have no problem with that they always answer the same question but they don't answer the fact like well then how do you become confident how do you apply this Larry how do you do three four things at the same time well let's then break it down to maybe start with doing one thing at a time sure and maybe let's start finding a match for a dog that suits your speed and capacities of what you need to learn first with that said it is true that you're going to get a melon as a first dog some people can rapidly learn that means as an indication of of high Talent if you can learn new skills in a fast manner in a fast way but there's also a lot of people that are not competent so let's go through the four components either you start and you are not competent so you are struggling to to learn a new skill it's costing you a lot of energy it's costing a lot of effort and a lot of time all right the second phase is you could be more or less confident you can do it it's still going to take a lot of energy it's still going to take a lot of time from you but at least you're hitting the ball at the right moment sometimes all right great more or less then you have copy that means you have put in the time you have done the work you're getting visible results yes you are putting a lot of time in but we can see that you are eligible that you can do it and then you have talent which is you are the same as competent but you can do it better faster and more efficient than the guy

who was creating that competency because he didn't have the talent you see so talented and competent it's all it's it's not even visible sometimes with the eye like oh these talented he's competent no it's all about how much time did it take to learn all this yeah sure and how fast can he do this and does he get better and more efficient results by doing even less than you all right so and and that's it that's why dog training is almost not almost it's by default an individual process because Larry if somebody comes in you will be dependent on the intellectual ability of your client right because you can talk to them about all these things and quadrants and psychology you can even explain is like what I'm explaining because you understand that doesn't mean that they understand let alone that they can understand this and also understand the skill the mechanical skill that goes that that goes with what you want to achieve and when you think of you know pop a leash a little pop or a leash correction or a leash manipulation for some people that is excuse me there's a leash and I can pull this thing how hard I have to pull it I have no clue this dog weighs 50 kilos do I have to pull it really hard I guess so because Elsa dog is not gonna feel anything you see so for them there's already this is already a million dollar question like what do you mean pop the leash or during the leash that like there's so less there's so little reference for them to like imagine what does Larry mean with that apply a little bit of pressure this for some people it's a blank nothing happens in their brains it's like in pressure I don't know but you're you're a half imagination you have a vision on when you see when you're talking about this I can see I go into Larry's brain and I can tell that you're seeing this in front of you you're you're exactly in tune with what you tell but for some people that's not the case so that when Larry talks they're hitting a wall because they're like I'm not even on the level that I know what to do with a leash let alone stimulate the dog also pressure the dog feel like what am I seeing signals where the dog is trying to scratch himself is he in a higher state of Drive where I can amp up that e-collar a little bit is he in the Lower State of Drive where I have to put that lower and combine like this is this is skill this is all skill so we'll have to start with skill development there's no other way we can talk 100 the good intentions all day and we could say buy this brand of e-collar or try the continuous button so maybe the net equal will be better for you to do a few Nicks instead of the continuous look this is

all detailed stuff this is all we can get into that once you've mastered some of those basic skills but for some people when you say basic skills oh that's probably reading the dog right yes reading the dog but there's a huge difference between reading a dog from behind your desk and reading a doc in the moment where you're handling this dog and this dog is acting weird and funny or or doing things that you were not expecting and not start reading this up you have problems reading your own driver Behavior Behavior let alone somebody else's this animal's behavior and your own behavior and how that's going to match but what you need to do is we have always been taught from a traditional standard point of view teach the dog the mechanics teach the dog how to sit teach the dog how to yeah okay so how do I teach the dog how to sit with the food yeah uh raise the hand or use the leash the pressure these like the most basic thing that I'm saying here now for some people this is already skill development how do you put a piece of food in your hand that is skill development I have to like explain in a class I was like yeah the food yet the risk control it's very important on how you manipulate how you get technique from a dog uh how do you hold the feet do you hold it here do you hold it here do you open it do you oh why I didn't even think of that that yeah right that's the first question how do I hold a piece of food getting another trainer phenomenal trainer who's on my team she does it all with open hand so the the foods here in the open hand and she's like guiding the dog with the open hand but I'm here using the closed hand can you imagine that somebody coming in seeing the both of us says what are you doing guys so is it open is it close how do you get the dog even to to go with that and not eat it and you correct it then when he eats you see they have so many questions I would we're not even talking about multitasking like it's just the basically the basic skills I think that the least skills that I have seen over the years when I travel doing Workshops the leash skills either the leash was in the hand and was not used the hand just didn't move they were just so focused on what this other hand was doing that this hand was completely out of the picture so they're making it harder on themselves by holding a leash not using that lesion any form or use whatsoever because they're so focused on this one thing and and on the other hand then when you ask them to apply leash skills I'm the Finesse of this leash skill uh skill was like it was bad it was bad so and if you attach on that leash a piece of equipment

that has an impact a direct impact on the communication wise and sensitive wise well now again this is a recipe for problems because you're asking Lee skills but what's attached to the necro dog can have a huge impact either the dog is sensitive or he's in low drive right he's very focused on you you start popping this thing so this manipulation he feels this is coming from you he gets insecure you're like oh what's going on they told me to pull this leash in because I need to get them closer to the dog is giving you an uh like another response as in an opposite reflex whatever uh oh damn what are you going to refer to analytics how do you analyze the situation and you apply some of your other skills to adjust this back problem big problem Larry because we're expecting way too much and because for us it's a norm but it's not well you hit on a really you hit on a great point there Nino because that you 100 we do expect way too much from people I'm getting ready to put out a video today for my private group that is literally just how to teach a dog how to follow food just like you said because the things that we take for granted the average person can do so I ask people we have to start from Ground Zero the ultimate basic Foundation what is that everyone will say they will sit down places no no we can't do anything until you could just keep your dog still you can't even keep your dog still that's a problem okay that's the lowest of the low most simple thing just have your dog with you where it's not all over the place like I literally start there right and then Larry pick it stick it a step further without the dog even so you have to visualize how this works without a dog because the dog's going to already add stress on you it's going to add pressure fast man you got a hungry dog in front of you what is the hungry dog gonna do try to jump on you I smell it I'm starting to push just this push and this sense of urgency now there's this you know time I need to move fast because he's hungry he's hungry he wants something I don't want to lose his attention I got his attention now let me do something sorry I interrupted you Larry just thought of this thought of it as okay this is great but even the prerequisite to this is actually without a dog no one's touching on that stuff it's it's the truth no one's touching it no you know no I'm so glad you said that nino because the longer I work with people the more I realized some of the most simple things that we take for granted people don't get they they well I just did a group yesterday you know and I was telling someone first we have to get them to follow the food the dog

doesn't know how to even follow the food so we can't manipulate positions he's not ready I said so get him to follow the food and someone who's done a great job with this dog he said I don't really know what that means I said okay all right yes that I have to think about those things we have to show everything how you hold the food the size of the food what you're using everything and we're bypassing all of that stuff and putting an e-collar on the dog they're coming to visit you not to teach them how to hold a piece of food they were going to see you for your expertise why are you coming to see Larry Larry is the expert in your car training you wrote a book body colors you have you you always you know uh talk about them we do not doing a podcast about each colors it's not Unthinkable that somebody's gonna pick up the phone tomorrow and call Larry for an e-call recession then they come to your uh uh class or they come to your house and you actually see that this person actually got to start from scratch so instead of doing any car training you taught them how to put food in their hands and hold it and how big they have to cut this piece so you could see it also what that does to people and their confidence so they thought they were ready hey we got the tool we bought it it's the best one on the market look what we got to be honest with you you gotta start holding the leash first dude and of course that that's also hard because somebody you know wants the expertise you want to give it you're eager I gotta go from scratch here I'm sorry and this process is going to take time but these today people don't have time look at what Tick Tock is swiping swiping that stuff swipe swipe swipe swipe you can't stop this thing Man it swipes all over not dog training it's like all right this working is it working or not all right when I'm gonna see the results I got people in the and the MVP is like my highest class the program the master program after two weeks hey uh when can we start fading this when can we start doing this you'll get you're literally learning to put one foot in front of the other and now you're going to fade you want to go through the advanced so the class goes from Super basic to Super Advanced they want to skip all that you want to go in 10 days let me try the advanced stuff skill development does not work with that even if you're talented it's still going to take time to make that combination but what do we do Larry you tell me so people here are eager let me hear Let me hear how you lose it let's go very technical how to use it I think majority was going to go what are you talking about what are they

talking about here you wanna you wanna know how to make a dog faster here here is the sound put on the rising then as soon as you say the command you start pressing it as soon as it hits the position you release that button but now let me tell you how fast the rising goes over one two three four five six seven eight nine ten all right so unless your dog can already move into that position in less than one and a half seconds you're going to be blasting this dog right okay so here I just told you a secret it's useless it's useless because your dog can't move in that position in one and a half two seconds and if you are not super super focused on the fact that when you even see he's going to stress out because of this time pressure that he's having in that avoidance which you explain is he knows how to escape it but he feels like not going to make it do you have the skill then to analyze oops I have to release this right away and come in with the Positive to end this on a positive note like all these things these little details that go into place amen look we can talk about it and I can generally have no problem sharing that stuff but you're at the last thing I want now is people going on the rising hey that's what you know said to make a dog faster I don't know that's what might be an option when you've hit those competencies when you've when you're able to combine multiple skills now let's oh I'm assuming I'm assuming for you I know for me everyone starts at the lowest the basics all the little things you describe that's where we start right I'm assuming you're the same way with everyone you work with that's no exception no exception yeah I hope everyone I just I hope that's everyone I had the honor this weekend to share you know uh my my weekend what a phenomenal person a multiple world champion high level will uh have him on our Facebook soon and and on the classes look I want when we talk I don't see like I'm not talking about like yeah of course to talk about his titles but when we train you think I would say something because he's a world champion I wouldn't say something that I would see that he would need you think they come out the blocks and everything's blazing everything's super on point everything is imperfection when he says Nino take out your dog you think that it's going to be faster than the fastest video he's ever seen or whatever now we're gonna see the real stuff is that I also make mistakes oh missed that one oh skip the beat over here that was a little sloppy gotta do that again so this is feedback that you need to that you need to always Embrace from anyone as once a student that saw me do a

workshop and he was he was already a student so he invited me to his Club to do the workshop and then I was taking out Rocky for a demo and I said hey uh Pat what do you think man did you like it he said yeah it was really good by the way he said man I didn't want to tell you and I actually feel bad but you know there was a point where your dog wasn't completely sitting and he said ah I didn't wonder what I said what are you talking about you you think you would embarrass me when you would say that you really think that that wouldn't embarrass me I would actually thank you Sam it's great because sometimes you can't see it all you can't know it all you don't have it all so I don't see any problem with that if you can't take that if you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen if you don't if you want to do workshops you won't want to you're afraid to expose yourself or you to make a mistake and do the workshops live you're afraid to say something wrong don't do the podcast and why videos are so important Nino and I tell everybody I work with I got 600 videos on YouTube there's not a video that I look at where I don't see a bunch of things I could have done better a bunch of mistakes I made with the timing or anything because as humans if you're not really thinking about it we tend to do things a little fast and put together and at the same time which isn't perfect for the dog right and so if you don't think about those things we tend to get into those habits at least I do and so the things that I preach against all the people that I work with if I don't pay attention I'll do it too you know I'll do it too yeah but um yeah that's that's that's great stuff I mean you listen I coach kids basketball right I work with my son all the time especially today because of people like Steph Curry everybody wants to shoot three pointers right and I'm a basketball Junkie and I preach to my son and my players guys you develop your touch inside the pain three feet from the basket four feet from the basket that's where you become a great shooter okay that's what bills the foundation when you get great at that and you develop that touch that feel that's when the three-pointers come but if you practice Beyond three point range you develop a lot of bad habits and then you'll never have that touch and it's the same thing with the dog you have to develop that touch in the most basic simple realistic way that anyone can do but it has to be there to move further you know but I guess some of the questions you know I guess yeah that brings us to one more thing one more thing about this Larry let's say you are on that track you are going into you

understand that skill development in multiple areas is going to help you elevate your game plan for the e-collar who's going to make the assessment who's going to say you're on the right track this is it unless you have a coach but who these days has a coach no no you have a dog training advisor so right this person tells you gives you some advice you take it or leave it coaching me that's giving you two weeks taking your dog for two weeks and giving it back to you and giving you an hour this is the button exactly that's a problem that's a big problem it's a it's an automatic failure you know it's a failure you know it just you can't win doing that the industry can't win the owner can't win and the dog can't win and in the end we're all going to lose because of that it's it's just a fact oh yeah someone with your skill level doing what you do with the dogs the way they look it's coming out of your mouth about preaching the most basic fundamentals that you have to do and your people have to do I hope that really resonates with people you know what I mean I really do because you're doing a very high performance dog they look phenomenal but it's not just you now now there's more and more people that I personally know that are doing great things not with just Malinois with everyday pet dogs that are looking phenomenal and so I hope they understand they didn't get like that by putting the e-collar on the dog oh no they had to First learn how to hold a piece of food how to hold their hand they had to do that there's no getting away from that stuff you know they're they're just isn't you know you have any questions you want to get to me you know um yeah let me open up uh the question lists where we might not be able to go through all of them obviously but uh let's just then I then read them all in advance but uh I do have them ready uh so somebody and or you actually already uh talked about this one so we can skip that um okay how can the stem and I think this is a good question how can the stem be used as a reward marker and the correction at the same time I think that does give a lot of confusion that you know we do perceive we can use them as a reward or use them as a correction now I'd like you to uh you know elaborate on this one first uh if you can so what what is that like do for you this question as stem reward stem correction could you explain that yeah sure okay I'm not really using the stimulation as a reward okay maybe right in the beginning depending on the dog especially if it's had a bad experience maybe I may use the low level stem as a tap feed tap feed tap feed depending on the dog in the situation but that comes

with reading the dog and have done many many dogs with the e-collar before knowing what the dog had been through right so for me it's mostly going to be negative reinforcement in the beginning through the teaching phase so I'm very simple My ultimate goal My ultimate goal is that the dog is reliable with the e-coloron when it's off leash when needed that I can come call the dog because that's the people that I work with that's what they want okay with that being said to stop a behavior absolutely very very simple if your dog is digging in the yard it's chasing a deer very simple but where people fail with that nino is people get caught up on this low level stuff everybody wants to preach low level and they're very proud that oh I only use low level I never use high level well guess what if you're going to try to stop a behavior with low level you're going to fail and eventually you run the risk of your dog getting truly hurt or killed what do I mean by that people talk about dialing up all the time okay I don't do that myself I'm just telling you what I do once my dog is trustworthy and I know that I could take it without a leash attached it's wearing an e-collar we're out in public that e-collar is set at the appropriate level for that what if moment what if my dog chases a deer what if my dog runs after a cat into the street and there's a car coming right I am not putting it on a low level that the dog was trained around my house and then going up and utilizing that when the dog takes up and start dialing up the second you start dialing up you lost the opportunity to stop that behavior permanently your timing is off and when you start trying to punish a behavior or stop a behavior with low levels and you continue to go up until it works the dog can adapt to take the higher levels with no effect so to stop a behavior you start high you end it you'll never have to go high again once or twice that's it you'll be able to go low and that's why I put the story in there about Jesse the dog that was living on the streets and would chase cats and stuff that's why I put the story in there in my book short chapter very very exact what I did to get him to stop chasing cats because he was going to live in a home that had cats right first time was the highest level second time was less than half the level never had to do it again but if I start low try to get Jesse to stop chasing cats and keep going higher eventually those higher level is going to have no meaning gonna have no meaning right so negative reinforced punishment very different you know yeah so yeah so what yeah I gotta put in my plug sorry um yeah Larry so what you're saying

basically is that the state of drive so where the dog is in will always reflect the output that is uh given exactly so so the state of Drive the dog is in is always the indication of the output that should be used so if the dog sure in his yeah highest high state of drive but you want a different and maybe we should point that out you want a completely different Behavior than the one that he's doing then yes you're going with a high stem right sure the high stem at that point will not result in necessarily wanted taught behavior before it will just do something else and there's something else is he stops chasing whatever he is chasing but and here comes the difference with a correction on a training context mediocre Drive level is when you apply that correction then because the dog goes out of line or he does something that you did not want you give a correction that should result immediately and the command that you've taught the dog and this might be a very complex command if and let's say for example is it a doctor go into a healing position Focus up right he's doing something completely different he gets a correction and high drive so let's say that takes place on a higher stem level but then the difference is this then should completely go into that wanted Behavior complex behavior that you've taught the dog before so sure and that is something that that's a distinction we have to make because what you refer to as uh chasing the deer or the cat it is actually outside of training dressage context that means at that point you want to stop the animal from taking that action or ongoing action so the stimulus will put this dog into a different state of mind and and have him you know try something else and that's something else whatever he does makes him stop chasing that cat deer whatever and he's prepared for that there's no negative blowback from that the dog has been prepared so I want to read kashi's uh response here he says this is a change stance from Larry's earlier conversation with Ivan where he said he would condition the dog to a level of Correction before using it as a correction that's not true Kashi he may know may have assumed that but that's not true at all never said that I don't condition the dog to a super high level of Correction I don't have to okay but when I jump into that intermittent stage and I'm using higher levels when the dog doesn't respond maybe that's what you're referring to so for example two or three days of conditioning the dog on low level right now when I jump in that intermittent stage where I'm working in those four different combinations we're talking about now when we're out saying

the dog is off leisure he's on a long line and I called the dog and he doesn't respond and I'm following up with a higher level stimulation I'm not talking about blasting the dog yes it's higher level than the conditioning phase right but that's realistic I'm not talking about stopping a behavior right so if I'm out there and I call the dog and he doesn't come and I follow up with the e-collar I'm not going corrective measures super high level like don't ever do that again so I think that's where you're getting confused I've always been very clear on that and if you go through the book you go through any video I can't be any more clear on that so from that conversation a lot of it was twisted like that I'm trying to use low levels all the time and I'm always using the e-collar before the command and I'm trying to stop behaviors you know preaching low level no that's that's not even the case many people do preach that I'm not one of them I've been very clear about what I do with it and that's never changed never changed at all especially when you have I do believe in preparing the dog to accept that higher level correction because I've seen what so many average dogs do when they receive that high level correction for the first time without being prepared we're not talking about well-bred High Drive Malinois here we're talking about everyday dogs that fall apart when they get hammered with the e-collar with no preparation fall apart get destroyed and I've been dealing with them for years for years and I've showed them I have showed them I've showed the videos of the dog showing up you've heard the stories from the people explaining what was done with them why they look like this why when the e-collar comes on they're shaking and they can't even function because of what they've experienced so I've never strayed from their Kashi that's not true okay not not even close to what I'm explaining now when we get to it that's a little more specific on on adding punishment to a specific behavior does that make sense Nino it definitely does to me it definitely does to me but it look like because you refer to this specific conversation of can you prepare a dog uh for a high stem if you kind of customize them to lower stem that's what this whole debate was about sure right is that correct in a nutshell like is it true or not yeah yeah that you can prepare a dog with low stems so he can take the hit when it does come a little bit higher now first of all I I did see parts of that conversation and the first thing I thought was why are we talking for hours about something that is and will always be arbitrary you have zero scientific

proof nor you nor him of what that dog thinks no dog has ever came back and told you but what you do have is proof of your results and that is your validation it's not what the dog wrote to you in an email later what he said sure it's about are you getting this dog to the point where he is trustworthy where he does not suffer from wearing an e-collar where Larry's approach was uh productive and was helping the dog in a time efficient manner with tangible visible results if the answer is yes Larry by default you are right there's no way you can fight me you could say Nino why do you move and slide with your dog all that time you know I can do that without congratulations do it without you see so it's not about the wrong and right and that's what I feel sometimes when these kind of discussions hit up then I'm always going like either you put trust in somebody if a client comes and meets Larry they say hey Larry I really like your results your human approach your honesty or you know your compassion with the dog so you're not just going to be brutal and that is my validation as a client that I give to you I allow you to do these things based on your expertise and if you want to stem the dog on the lows first to prepare for the high or you don't want to do that to be honest with you I could not care less I could not care less so I didn't understand that whole conversation why was it so important that you would say something that that maybe you you know that that was unclear to him and for you that was unclear why it kept going back to that same same conversation topic like it was meaningless it was meaningless because what you do like you said there's different breeds there's different response there's different actions you could do there's so many things that could lead to a result that if you want to then do the aftermath on what exactly was it that made the difference in your appearance and with that color and what are you guys talking about but here's the issue here's the one thing that was ignored with that conversation you know we have to focus on the human the average human with the average dog what's going to benefit them so the way of only can you get your dog to recall a hundred percent if you only use the e-collar as an aversive like you would a leash after the fact when the dog doesn't respond absolutely 100 without any problems to the dog if you do it if I do it but the problem is when the average person tries to do that they've been trying to do that since the 70s and the 80s and they have failed hundreds and thousands if not millions of dogs they have failed the dogs because they tried to use the e-collar

as an aversive only when the dog didn't do right that's my whole point against going that way and promoting that style why I do things the way I do which Again by the way I didn't invent or create I'm just taking with better people before me have done but I seem to be the focus because I guess I get a lot of attention for and I get that but I've always been very clear I never invented anything I never created anything this isn't the Larry Crone method these are things that I have taken from better people before me that I have found work best for the average dog and the average dog trainer the average owner the average dog owner where you're never where the average person isn't going to destroy their dog because the second someone says oh I don't have to condition or prepare the dog or teach them I just call him when he doesn't come I blast them then we continue to do what we've been doing for the past 50 years and that's why the tool is in the light that it is in so many places you know yeah I think you know that's that's what it is and the e-collar can give you faster better more efficient more reliable results so everybody wants to know the secret and Larry attached his name to an e-collar user has incredible results has saved a lot of dogs from a horrible life without any freedom Etc so of course your you know Larry's and e-collars and especially if you write a book you're you become one with the collar you become the face of the e-collar not just because you talk because the others try to hide that's what I'm trying to say why isn't the world champion also talking about his experience because he can't maybe he wants to but he can so Larry has to and Mr freestyle Nino he can also because he's not in an organization that shuts his mouth so we're like that leaves us like yeah we're making the we're making these conversations happen so yeah you know I just had an idea of I'm not a big Tick-Tock guy but I just had an idea of a tick tock video I'm going to do and I think I'm going to get more of it more views than any video I've ever done or you've ever done I'm going to take your video of you doing your moves without the dog that you got so ripped apart about by so many I'm going to throw on maybe some Fritos or some tights or something and I'm gonna re redo that video [Laughter] are you serious I think I'm going to I'm going to have to be doing a little drinking probably but I think I'm gonna do it all right yeah all right I have a good question here too that's about a very specific video that I put out um IRS says in the video where you taught Dante not to nail Luca during a ball game after you condition him to the

e-collar did you do any intermittent training after the conditioning phase or is that more of a pet dog General recall proofing phase that's a good question ARA so I showed that video for a reason again because a lot of people say oh Larry doesn't use the e-collar to stop the behavior I had to show people not true and it's not the first time I've done it I showed the same thing with mango so the video was I took all four dogs out Dante's young I know I'm gonna throw the ball and Dante has no chance on getting it from my other dogs and he's going to get frustrated and he's going to come behind one of the dogs probably Luca and he's gonna try to bite him well I'm going to stop that today I didn't do a lot of e-collar training with Dante because I didn't have to he's very very well trained to where I went through the e-collar training process very fast just so he was trained to understand again how to remove it how to turn it off he gets it right so I spent two days conditioning him five ten minutes couple times a day then I did very little work in that intermittent phase because again with him I didn't have to and so if I give him a command and again this goes back to their previous conversation we're talking about if I give him command he's almost always going to do it very fast so he doesn't provide me a lot of opportunity to follow up with the e-collar and teach him through some repetitions to how to avoid a return of does that make sense so I took two things with him where I know sometimes he's a little slow to respond and I took advantage of teaching him with the e-collar on that no when I tell you to do this you have to do this the two things were sometimes more outside and we're done training or playing if I let him take his tug or his ball off the field off the grass when we're going inside sometimes he'll turn around and run to go lay down on the grass and I'll say let's go Dante and he'll blow me off so I knew that was a great opportunity to show him you can't blow me off right the op the other opportunity was when we come in the house if I need to him him go in his crate sometimes when we come in I'll tell him Dante kennel and he'll run past his kennel and not listen immediately so I took advantage of that these are two great times to utilize the e-collar to show him hey buddy when I tell you this you have to do it so I prepared him we did all our playing and training he had the e-collar on it wasn't being used but then when we get to go inside he's coming with me and he runs back to go lay on the grass which he really likes to do which I will let him do quite often right but this time I said let's

go Dante and he didn't come so right at that moment all I had to do was tap the e-collar okay now I know what the next question is and he got up and he came to me because he knows I'm serious you can't blow this off right now I could talk to you and communicate with you when you're over there without a leash on that's very powerful to a dog very very powerful now I know what the next question will be well what level were you on everybody's worried about levels right so let's say when I was doing the conditioning phase with Dante let's say I was on a level eight and nine low levels with the e-collar Technologies that's where I started right now when I knew Dante May blow me off and he's over there I was on a 20 which is still super low right not a huge difference between a 10 and 20 when it comes to the dog or the sensation of the Eco but it's enough to let him know oh [ __ ] like a leash pop how hard would the leash pop be if you said Dante let's go and he didn't come that's how hard the e-collar was about as hard as the leash pop would have to be doesn't have to be hard in that situation right but I already had it set where I knew it would be effective for that dog and his level of training right now let's say I know Dante likes to chase the garbage truck which he doesn't but let's make believe he does and I'm going to go outside and I'm going to play ball with him outside my house and it's garbage day and I put his e-collar on because I know the garbage truck may come down the street well guess what the e-collar is not going to be on a 20 like it was when I knew he wouldn't come to me the first time I call him it's going to be on a very high level that's going to stop him in his tracks if he goes after that garbage truck and he's already been prepared to know exactly what that is there's no confusion there right there's no confusion it's very clear to the dog so one of the biggest mistakes that I see and you probably do too is people get very confident because they think the e-collar is a magic wand they have the Long Leash On the dog or the leash on the dog and the dogs coming to them every time they call them and after one day of training two days of training they say this is great when they haven't really trained the dog well before they put the e-collar on now they take the leash off and they're calling the dog and it's not coming and now they're raising raisin raisin raisin and now they blast the dog and it comes to know the dog's barely been getting any training before that and they screw the dog up and this is something that I see seven days a week 365 days a year so I hope that answers

your question pretty clearly or a good question so my question to you would be how fast is he coming back from when coming back oh immediately yeah so now there's no more e-collar in when I come out this this the speed between him turning that's already the recall as soon as the dog gives up the action and goes and like turns his head towards you you have your recall basically but how fast does he run towards you so my question basically is does the e-collar affect his speed running towards you or is the speed completely dependent on the reward you have on the back end the speed is dependent on the training that goes in before so I'm always going to make sure he's going to come to me fast because he's going to do everything fast because he's trying to use rewards you use the rewards right right yeah so this is important this is what I was looking for yeah and you guys it's fortunate enough that when it comes to my own dogs especially Dante you guys have seen all the training everything I ever did with him is on video this way people know right and you know what people kept asking you know hey when are you going to start the e-collar training when are you going to start the e-track college six months old we're still doing all food work all ball work having a great time when are you going to start the e-collar training right that's all people care about well hey how about paying attention to what we're doing with the food what we're doing with the ball how about paying attention to how happy he is to be working with me right that e-collar is going to go on him not to speed anything up I don't have to if I wanted to I can but I don't have to the Eco oh oh Larry he froze up on my part hello it's a you guys are you still here oh yeah he's he's Frozen so yeah all right so um let me carry on with the conversation because I think Larry I mean Larry is the host so I think he needs to refresh all right so yeah the speed is very important of the recall because let's say you have a slow recall the dog can always change his mind along the way then if he doesn't believe that there is something on on the back you know on the back end of his recall that he can uh you know that he can win so because if you don't have that fast recall let's say he comes back slow and then he sees something else again and you see he needs to be committed like straight to you the focus needs to lie with you and you can only achieve that by continuously preparing your dog with great rewards and play and stuff like that so you know what Larry says is he already has a recall so the the backup is the e-collar but the recall was established before the recall was done

with food was done with balls was done with played like and then you know you can use your e-collar as a backup plan which you also install with a mechanical uh introduction first so you call the name the mechanical will give directions if he doesn't respond or if he responds too slow and as as soon as he responds you come out with the reward so that's how you create a fast recall in a very efficient one once you put the overlay in with the e-collar so of course talking about something like that always sounds way more Technical and and harder than it is now what is that let's break this down let's break down the skill of a recall that means you're going to set things up a little bit so your imagination has to start working on how you're going to teach this dog that already has a good recall without any distractions how are we going to teach this dog to then respond in a more distraction environment that means you're going to take them out and there's going to be some scent that he can smell there's going to be something new something fresh and that's when you're going to have the mechanical backup you can have the reward on the back end which you're always ready as soon as he turns you need to show him that stuff so he can speed things up and you can introduce the e-collar later on so that means as soon as you call the name you're going to manipulate the dog towards you with mechanical directions and later on you compare that with e-collar uh overlay on top of that like a little neck and then in the last phase you will call his name and then first give the e-color tab and then the directions so then the dog will tell you do you understand that you know the e-collar Nick is also giving you the the directions you should be running at and then never forget the reward because I was just explaining Larry that if you don't go for the fast speed uh like recall tour towards you he might do the same thing again along the way so he needs to completely go into the behavior that you created before which was sure when I call you're gonna win something when I call you're going to win something so that e-collar Nick that Larry gives even on the high stem puts Doug back into that conditioned mode of when I run towards him you know I'm gonna get what I want so I avoided this which is what you said by saying his name you will not have to push anymore because he knows on the what was their dog's name Dante Dante so before the E is even pronounced da he's already turning he's already on his way back that's what Larry wants because the a that you want to have that reflexive beat it so he's in control the dog is in control in the end and that's

what it's about that the dog police uh got this whenever he calls whatever whatever the the command is whatever task I get I'm going to execute this test because I understand how to avoid the caller stuff because you've introduced it to him and he's not stressed about it and he only gets the good stuff so at some point he's gonna go like got this doing it I'm on it and he's going to do it while looking happy and joyful because he knows that Larry put in the work and he should only earned things and he's controlling the the positive and the negative reinforcements how good is that that's what the dogs want they don't want to you they don't want you to make them do something they want to do it all you got to do is teach it and set it up for Success so don't go out there with a bunch of crazy dogs and then trying to test a recall by the young puppy it is possible we have actually videos in our program showing a recall about a variant Papi playing with another puppy like they're all over each other we call Pop they're they're shooting straight to you again but of course you have to see what happened before that and that was kind of a an assessment risk we take with a puppy with two puppies playing let's say they wouldn't have come all right then you that's just to see how solid is this recall already and this these two puppies just stopped playing instantly I went both to the handle all right so now you you show or you show yourself like hey I put I'll put a really good foundation already on this pup this pup is getting ready right and then you know when this pup is ever going to wear a collar he already knows his name he already knows you know how to come back full speed and then you introduce some mechanics and you just see it as a as a project that's going to take a little bit longer than a one week thing where your dog is gonna shoot but because you bought an e-collar who cares you bought an e-collar put in that kind of type of quality work and you will get the outcome of your dreams if you just put it in the right plan the right scenario with with the you know the right steps and then you put it on the right output level now like you said Larry now what output level is it well depending on what state of drive it was a recall when he was just smelling something you can't blast them as if it was like almost about to open his jaws and eat the cat of the neighbors that's going to be different stem speaks for itself but then Larry how do I get access to the higher stem because my e-collar was actually set on the mediocre Drive stem and that's where your choice of e-colors comes into play which ear color allows

you to play in two Rebels uh levels of Drive where the dog might have needed a mediocre stem or might have needed a high stim so unless you have the settings beforehand or you anticipated on these two types of drive and you have access to these remotes immediately if you don't well you are f-u-c-k-e-d simple as that because you don't have you don't have the level to communicate with the dog at that point because too low that's just going to go in and he's not even going to feel it it's not even going to feel that so you got to be prepared but you also got to be smart enough to not push on the wrong button when he's doing the stuff on the wrong or I mean in the lower drive so how do you avoid pushing on the wrong button to put in again repetitions quality work let's create that confidence on the lower settings the lower Drive doing the multitask and doing all that kind of stuff so so don't go out there thinking because you can afford a collar that you can just go out there and use the collar and get the results Like Me Like Larry like like other people without putting in the work you could just you can't just bypass it all you have to put in some of the same Foundation the smarter dog will do it learn it faster just as people more Talent means better results faster results with less effort but not every dog is super talented so yeah Larry gets and pets that take more time and I get dogs that I one two three sessions they're like already flying it's like crazy and then people say it's the Malinois isn't it well yeah of course this dog tends to be more talented than the other dogs at at times but that doesn't mean that will exclude you from developing also the needed skill because the faster the dog is the faster you gotta be so which brings us to the same problem are you fast and skilled and qualified enough and some people are not fast enough so then it doesn't matter if the dog is super talented or smart you're just too slow yeah so make the assessment you got to make your own assessments guys like who can who can make an assessment on your talent like we developed the talent skin but who's gonna fill that out me well I don't know the new students they have to fill out their own assessment first based on you know questions and then they can answer them in in order of you know very likable or very yes very strong like a scale of five uh different points you can you can fill that in and that's going to give both of us like if you want okay this is where you're at based on your own assessment and self-assessment is still the most valuable thing because if you assess yourself as a Grandmaster but you can't

even hold a lease so to speaking well then there's something wrong with the assessment and we need to talk about you instead of your dog also and and that's why again it's an individual process and needs to be individually assessed same goes for the dog so what kind of dog do you have what kind of drives does he represent what kind of states does he go in how does he respond it's a regression in the dog is it a prey driving the dog is there a huge food drive in the dog like what what assets are we going to use if he's eaten how much of a value does this food reward have then for this dog let's say you've taught to recall consistently with food now you go out there little Bobby got his whole meal and now he's about to get in trouble and you recall him but his stomach is full what does that do you see what is what is your plan then if he doesn't need the food so when the dog doesn't need something we both know he's not so likely to go full in so the speed is going to lower the reaction time is going to go going to drop and you're going to use the e-collar to recreate what you once had but some things can maybe the dog is not ready at that point to use the e-collar as a stem where he speeds things up all right so first you have to see what kind of drives he also relates to if the food if you satiate it or if he doesn't like the ball or whatever so your options also might be limited in speed of return for example in levels that you can apply because sometimes you know what happens right so I've met people with a lab and they've introduced the caller by chasing a squirrel and they Zapped him from then on from then on make no mistake the dog each time you fell the lower stim he was going into slower motion even when it was used with with positive reinforcements at the same time he's like still not having it I don't like the sensation there's something in that in that overall feeling even in a low stimp yeah it was messed up it wasn't supposed to happen that way right off the bat can you can you fix that absolutely yes absolutely yes how by putting it again the quality work without the collar first by gaining the confidence of the dog and movement by speeding up his movement process by using an overlay mechanically and then slowly also introducing the lower stem combined with the mechanical uh the mechanical leash pressure that you gave all right you see so you kind of go back to rebuilding the confidence of the dog there's no such thing as he is now messed up forever or whatever unless you like do that over and over again yeah then you mess them up but normally and in these circumstances where something happens in

high drive and he gets too much of a blast and he's you feel like oh he's really stressed out now but don't worry about it just go back to what he he's not stressed out about which was playing with you which was engaging with you and doing all the fun stuff and don't worry about it too much people worry too much all the time they think the dog you know gets a stem one time and he's he's gone he's wasted he's uh he's washed up that's not the case I've seen dogs come back from getting blasted by uh you know even even like when when they're not like yet in the highest drive but they're setting on the e-collar was on the high like that one was prepared to to deal with the most severe uh interaction of distraction where they were going to kill something but I was like just looking at it and or trying to maybe do an attempt it gets blasted on that same level that's not the same for the dog as if it was already opening his mouth you see and that's when the problem starts is because now they've given this dog a stim and this dog was so shocked literally by it that is it is now looking a little bit uh insecure fearful even wow what have I done this e-collar destroyed my dog like putting that thing back in the drawer I'm done with this and what do you think on your belts Never Gonna gonna return to his original level but he's not gonna hey you know what that was a while ago but that was damn fun the other time when I got the cat so and he's gonna do it again so I mean but these are these are things like you know that happen on the daily and uh and also you know to to get that remote out like your reaction time all these kind of things or when like what do you do when instant when you do it and you see no response so people freak out so what they do is they dial that thing up because they want to make sure they got enough juice when they need to choose because it takes time to dial the thing up get out of your pocket and make the adjustments you're too late so what happens then the default setting is the high setting and then people are doing something like hey that might have used a Nick pop boom now they've nicked something on a high level where the dog was supposed to get a very low level you messed it up again but that's what happens is you will mess up you think I never pushed on the wrong button I have of course and so have you Larry and so I've used them too long sometimes but because our foundation always go back to that Foundation because that was built strong enough the dog always covers right 100 right and yeah if if you don't want any of that if you're like I don't want any of this business while I'm

pushing the wrong button having a chance to create some kind of insecurity yes then I'll use the collar but if you don't use the color don't expect to have that same kind of freedom and security than somebody else or you're going to have to be looking at a complete different skill set and also make a new expectation plan on when your dog's going to be ready to do things that other dogs have been doing for for a year already for example so and that these are concessions you will have to make so that said Larry I am actually uh you know in the making I'm about like maybe one maximum two weeks I'm gonna publish a complete positive only program as well so all of a sudden are you against no out of respect for the people that are able to use their skill and not go to tools they also deserve a platform and showcase what that will take but not in a hey I hate you because you use the caller no in mutual respect hey this is really good we should do more of that as well and maybe you can make your own conclusions and see if you want to be more balanced if you want to hear more towards those techniques it's whatever you want Larry like you said people do whatever they want but they gotta have a chance to learn so well Nina the thing is what you do in like the purely positive the positive reinforcement thing right it's important it's really important because I know for me showing a lot of that stuff it's taken a lot of people that were 100 against e-collars in any kind of aversion right to look a little deeper and say okay wait a second and they start looking a little further and they change their stance on a lot of things because the perception the perception of so many people that are anti-anything anti-e-collar anti-everything is they have an unrealistic perception of how most good trainers use tools and Punishment and Corrections however you want to word it right they just picture why would you teach the dog how to sit with an e-collar when you could just use food well most people don't that's just what you have in your head it's an imagination you know I don't know anyone who does that right if I wanted to could I without making the dog look bad or feel bad absolutely but I don't so I'm teaching everything with food I use so much positive reinforcement and I show it and that has opened the doors to a lot of people listen I've had people come to my seminars for years sneaking in not telling people their anti-e-collar positive reinforcement only people and coming in to hate me and disrupt things and it never happened and at the end they'll say I want to tell you I came here to hate you and of course the problem and I didn't know

that people use this tool this way you're gonna follow me for that and tell me I'm using it wrong sorry you use it however you want but I'm going to continue to try to educate people at a different way you know in a different way and the second I find something better that works for most people most dogs I'll jump on as fast as you can imagine you know I will be on board because I just want what works best for everyone it works best for me best for the people that I work with why wouldn't I why wouldn't I you know and so that's that's just the way I see things thanks thanks for you know telling that and it seems like uh it's it's become a war almost where people trying to find that that uh collusion or Collision I mean between the good and the right we are the you know I mean I saw the good and the bad we are the bad because we use Scholars and then there's the good of the people that only have good intentions only want to reward dogs and and being supported by their governments and and so on so their backup is way bigger than our backup where we are dealing with the people that actually have colors they're the ones that yeah they might have messed up here and there they they've got cut with given stims where the dog was yelling nobody's intention it did happen it was caught on tape it was one of your guys for example or affiliated with your sport even might not even know the guy he's in that same sport I saw an I saw an [ __ ] doing that to a dog you're like that too right because you I've seen you use a collar and I see that other guy he's a color in that same sport yeah those were a bunch of jerks so yeah that's what you get is called stigma yeah and it's hard to get rid of that but on the other hand how many people do you know how many names can you drop right now or you say Elite High Drive Malinois competing winning only positive and not just the ones hiding it where they say they do but they actually don't like the real ones they show you the training show you everything also open book inside like you want to come see it not where they're like oh well you can't come train with us we're exclusive we're you can't just you know walk in here you got to be part of the team you got to be part of the game you got shut up man just your hiding stuff right we know you are and that's I have a problem with that seriously I don't have a problem with people that want to protect their integrity because you know they they can't just go out there and and say that things they are but let's not also fake your way into making people believe you're all positive man you got the results because you've used the colors

just as I do so but you're just not saying it I know purely positive training facilities that rake in the money that I know for a fact are not even close I believe literally positive training facilities yeah but because that's how they're advertised and that's all they show they do really well with people that are very anti-everything you know what I mean and uh it's it's that's insane you know another issue that we touched on a little bit in a prior post Nino was when these people get puppies and they give way too much Freedom too early and they're creating so many problems and bad habits with the dog and then the first response is and and I cringe when I hear this you know I think I need an e-collar because my dog doesn't listen to this my dog doesn't listen to that well yeah that's a tough one you you trained it not to listen right when you're constantly telling your puppy no no no no no yelling his name this this this this because you refuse to give that dog management and give him the appropriate Freedom as he can handle it then you turn to the opposite direction and throw in an e-collar on the dog at five or six months old because he's out of control or he gets to be nine months old where you start seeing the real dog it just keeps spiraling out of control you know and these are things that people aren't talking about why are people doing this with the tool you know and so what do you need they need they need a blueprint that's a problem but they think because now there's access to the internet and the internet type in you call it training type in dog training whatever so much information YouTube like YouTube has you know I've read it last week uh Google you to the owner of YouTube they have they're like there's like gigantic um multinationals but there's like that the biggest or the biggest worth 800 billion dollars whatever you can you imagine how much information there is on YouTube Just on dog training it is enormous it is huge it's crazy but how do you filter that if you start and we've all started wasn't the the worst idea like being in a position knowing that there was information out there but not finding it not knowing how to access it not knowing how to start so then yeah the guy next door does have a dog why not listen to him he at least has a dog and if he's gotten the least of a bit result yeah why not go with what he says and and show that you're humble and a beginner and you want to do what you know what advice people give you is starting off wrong really that's where all the problem starts so now you got a few advisors but they've they're not really experts in the field of

debris that you have they're not experts in the vision or they can help you coach you in the vision that you had before you bought the dog and and now you'll get you'll you'll be doing things that are not going to fit in the picture that you had for this dog and and now you're rough rails you're getting disencouraged you think AI maybe this dog doesn't have it maybe I don't have it the doubts start sneaking in you go more on YouTube trying to fix things then you come across this thing that says e-collar and then there's people promising a lot of results or getting results and then I see that there's a definitely a a way to try to connect with that and like the resort of man let's try this e-collar here and see and see how that because these guys seem to be really good at it and people want to spend money on callers a caller is not cheap they want to spend the money and if you look at the franchises that use e-collars I mean everything's geared on I mean it's so reliant on that color so the color has become like a virtue hey if I could dream of my knee collar you can be a professional trainer you can do you could take important trains you can help other people all you need to do is just you know push that button right there was no skill development talked of anywhere close it was all about the push of this button all about you know the the rapid like you say rapid results and then it all falls into you know like a cardboard house it just Falls flat because you then had the foundation the doc was not able to rely on previous you know good interventions of yourself like good uh solid foundations the thing starts falling apart you're in trouble now it goes into fixing mode for the rest of your days and then they'd get in a new dog because they wanna fix the problem of the dog by getting a new dog and regaining confidence of now I'm going to do it right way I got this new dog now I'm gonna hit it I'm going to do this that no you're not going to do anything you're going to do the same thing with somebody else and it's going to lead to this it's just the same or a different problem so we got to make sure that there's a platform for people where they can go in even where the prerequisite to owning a dog and then like talk to them coach them and and work on this Vision that they need to have before they get the dog actually and when they get the dog that this Vision will help them establish this result within x amount of months if it takes years it's a it's not a great plan because it can't take yours dog's not going to last years so it's got to be efficient and you're an approach when you're talking efficiency

the e-collar always comes in in trainers arsenal of tools because it's it's such a great tool if you know utilized well and and no we're going again with the cliches of if utilized well if sure you know introduced and and so on but that's what it is and people have all these questions and I say look you have any caller yeah I do I do how come you never have it with you you never it's never on the dock I want to make sure I do it right so well do you really believe that if you're gonna use this e-code it's always going to be right no just put it on put on the low setting you're going to push I'm gonna I'm gonna show you I'm going to teach you how to push and how to do that combined with another skill and you're gonna take that you're gonna take that jump again we're going to put it on this low level but at least you're doing it and this level will not mean a whole lot to the dogs you're not going to see extreme changes but at least you're working on that skill and as long as in the drawer you're now working on that skill you're actually telling yourself oh man this is such a huge step to go into this is this is too much I can't do I need somebody look when I when I got in the new police guys some of them never had a dog before and then we had like four months and four months these guys are operating a high drive dog yeah they've never handled a dog didn't have any experience but on top of that they're also in stressful situations dealing with other danger indications and and stuff they need to take care of other police skills and they're all combining that in their training they were you know exposed to e-color training so what is that like you got to be experienced to to to use an e-collar no but you got to be responsible and you gotta have coaching you gotta understand what priorities to make in your training and how to do this as in what is the plan well you have the caller put it on the dock yes what are you going to do with this well if you master this skill this little Luber skill for example on top of that use the E on number one well it's like from 11 from number one to hundred it's just gonna do it okay because I want to see that light lit up when you do it so that that means that shows me you're consciously using a button that button doesn't mean anything to Doc because number one is not even scratching his his uh his hairs it doesn't do anything but at least they're getting the confidence now you could see also when is it going out when is it letting what is it or are they processing this what they're doing and and that they'll tell you like hey there I see that they're they're getting

this they're doing the the push on the right time they're releasing on the right time the dog like they already the other skill is is working well for them they could still have profession on what's Happening here and do something with this hand that's completely different so you help your dog with something on the left and the rights operating the collar so but this must be aligned with the left and by letting it up by using the light so it's visible and stuff like that or or maybe even a tone make or whatever it is at least now we can coach people and see hey he's starting to get it because how else you if you give the color at one point I don't know when he's pushing so and then it's hard to only look at it you have to have that feedback you have to have that feedback before you can send the client home and and especially you know again the anti-low level people I tell everyone when they finally get that e-collar I tell my clients I'll see you next week said you're going to make mistakes this week you're going to screw up in training but the way we're doing it you're not going to screw up the dog so don't have that fear and that's really really important right if you send the person home to stop behavior and punish a behavior and the e-collar is jacked up you're going to make mistakes and yeah you're going to screw up your dog but I I do it in a way that is so simple for them so little one thing one thing and you're still going to screw it up and I said tell them it's not because of you everyone does but when I see you next week I'm going to see where the mistake is and we're going to fix it and you're going to get it and then you'll never forget it but we're going to do in a way where don't worry you won't mess your dog up I promise and no one ever does mess their dog up you know what I mean because like you said earlier Nino it's one of the best things you said as simple as it is for us because we've been doing it so much I've had professional athletes like Pro Bowl football players that can't put all those little things together it's like they can't walk and chew gum at the same time because although it is easy because we're doing it so often for so long it's not easy for people starting out and they have to stop and think about it it's not easy and these are the little things that are being overlooked by so many trainers when they throw that remote to a person and send them home can't do it you can't do it you have to be a better teacher a better teacher and we can't take for granted that these people know nothing thing nothing and we have to start at the lowest level and I don't mean level of e-collar I mean

level of learning and teaching you know yeah yeah definitely I agree so and that's when you can even use it for any breed because what it does is is nothing that creates an impact on the quality of the life of this dog small or little or high drive you have done the work and you have put yourself in a position to operate a modern enhanced tool that can help you sophisticate and speed up the learning curve of your dog which is very important because the faster he knows his stuff the more both of you can enjoy what it is all about having a dog having a dog is like and if I if you would ask me you know how would an ideal companionship look like with a dog I would say going out there biking with him running with him bringing him to my family's home please telling him what to do you know be part of it but sometimes also exclude him because he needs to wait for us when we're in the store he needs to wait when we're we're going to maybe do something with somebody who's afraid of a dog so he can go in and out of your life and to have that kind of comfort and control an e-collar is is an unbelievable tool but I you know again trying to put people in hey guys buy one buy one it's like it's not in my advantage not in your advantage but seek for the skill guys seek for the skill that will just help you even then if you didn't use a collar you would still have something really solid to rely on and then when you're ready you're gonna you know put in some quality Leaf skills some good reaction times where you're on top of what you're doing you're feeling like you're making an impact on the dog in a good way and then we come in with the e-collar and the e-collar then just puts that overlay on on top of all the work you've done and just creates that freedom and a confidence of now I can release even a high Drive Dock whereas a police dog for example mine all they're all police dogs they bite people and they've bitten people like like for real on the street they've written people would you feel comfortable letting a dog loose that has bitten people that you know his threshold is really low right right well yeah yeah because I know with this dog is is you know how we responds but I also know if there would ever be a problem I can use this color also to make sure that everybody stays safe and that doesn't mean because you're not an e-collar user you're on the leash you think a dog on a leash never bit a guy actually I think most incidents happen when a dog is on a leash because these lunges you know they they feel they feel uh like uh being uh I would call it like being um supported by the Handler because they're

like even leaning into a super sharp pinch it's also supportive so that it's not like they feel that it's no so there there's so many things actually that do the opposite of what you believe it would have so um yeah the collar is is really a good tool but like Clary said guys you got to educate yourselves you gotta come with a plan and also assess the skill that you have at this moment are you ready for that tool I believe a lot of people are ready believing that they're not so I think equally many people are ready believing I'm not ready I'm not ready but also a lot of people believe in that they think they're ready or not even worthy of training with a leash meaning they still have to put in some groundwork with food they still have to understand mechanics they still have to understand how to communicate with the dog even non-verbally so you focus on one skill at a time guys verbal skill skills talking to a dog given commands placing these commands what to do when he responds what to do when he doesn't respond this is also another skill then you have the fading skill which is oh great now you've done everything with the food how do you get rid of the food you see another skill comes into play because this also requires subtlety then a combination with the e-collar fading could be amazing if you start fading with the collar that means if the dog derives a little bit but you can use the collar to maintain position but then there's not really food then you use the marker for example boom there's another world that opens up because now you don't need anything anymore in your hands and the dogs still doing all the stuff that you you train for without any tools in the hand like literally literally pushing him in those positions but all of that is with phases can't just go in there and expect in 10 days guys ready to fade here got the eye color got the dog with the high drive got everything set no even then doesn't matter if you're the world champion or you are a beginner you will have to respect those phases of dog training and in his life luckily dogs are such fast Learners that in 8 to 12 months we can accomplish basically anything that we want to teach this dog for our purpose and that's that's the great thing about dogs they're so they're so into it like if you create the environment for them to thrive in if you know what accelerates their talents by using the right amount of value and and whatever Drive you're showing that either it be food drive or a ball drive or even by drive like the they want to like bite into shoot things or Protection work um uh equipment you can all use that as an

asset but everything has to be done with a mind of what will this do for me if I'm going to use let's say for example a jute ball like that underneath my armpit will this dog look up to me Larry yes not only he will look up to me he will also try to Lunge at it okay so how do I prevent him from lunging I might use a leash to prevent him from lunging at the ball all right I might do that even separately okay so now the dog knows lunging is not going to get me the ball but you have this huge tooth ball and he's gonna look up for sure but now the question is there will be a time where you don't have this Jude ball under your armpit for example so what is your plan what was your vision to ever get rid of this that helped you so much in the very first stage that you use it the first seconds that he sees it is oh great this has happened but you also know that heaven's not going to be there forever and how do you foresee this plan out when stuff starts to be faded up that's why yeah I don't have any videos myself with balls like using from this you know this type of work is something I've never done I go into to head positioning movement self-fading that comes in with the mechanics the collars you see I'm more a trainer that use multiple skills to try to get a certain behavior that is not one-dimensional or we go in top down manipulation is try to hide the ball then it goes into the back into the back pocket then it goes it kind of it's also subtle so it's both are a fade yes but I like more possession work and Technical work and combinations then only one dimensional now it's there it's almost there I can't see it anymore but I still hope it's there and then it's going to drop for example so you see these are complete two different Visions on how to train a healing style for example but then it's not about what Nino does or what works for Nino it's about what are you capable of as well how do you assess yourself doing how do you envision yourself doing this do you feel energy and joy while doing this and if the answer is yes that means all right great because now you're going to do more of this kind of stuff that means you're going to invite yourself to do more because this is something that appeals to you and you gravitate towards because it's it's you you see yourself doing this stuff and that's the thing if you if you visit one trainer and you say this is it but I have to do what he does you will feel very defeated because if one of those skills don't really belong to you you kind of think I don't have it I can't do it I'll tell you I can go train with people and I'm going to be feel very uncomfortable and I would feel

almost like a novice and it would eat on my confidence because I wouldn't be able to to do what they do but that doesn't mean you can do other things that's why there should be always multiple options for you but one thing that can never change is do you comprehend skill development combination of skills control mechanisms behaviors of drivers of people can you also assess dogs can you make the analytics analytics don't change if you are a trainer with a ball or you train with food you train with high drive or low drive you must possess analytical skill to see what's go goes on and what to do in the moment to adjust things right when you adjust things what are you going to do you're going to use skill if I go to a seminar in the US or wherever the US is where I am mostly at well the first thing that happens is I see a bunch of people that I've never seen before I see a bunch of dogs that I've never seen before and these people are going to give me 30 seconds of what they do with the dog and I'm going to say show me what you can do with this dog right so what am I supposed to rely on I don't have a history I don't have a connection with this dog I don't have a bond with this dog and I actually know nothing about about it so what I will do the first thing to make a difference is apply a combination of skills that I have acquired over the years or over the months or whatever so I can make a change to get a better result than they were having doing it for months so you see where the difference is made so that means by default you will always go to foundational skills for handlers without dog talking about motor skills for dogs and that's how you become a trainer and not just a dog owner you have to become a dog trainer or even a dog training coach because if you want to understand the dog you gotta go on his b levels also you have to understand his talents and his competencies to acquire that means you are a coach literally the first second you get a dog because you can't just give your dog advice hey Doc try that see what that how that works no a dog doesn't understand anything unless you really go into his deeper comprehension levels on how Mechanics Work how Food Works how how everything works because all the thing only the only thing that he can do is just go and eat swallow it and then go to the bathroom and sleep and that's it that's basically what you know animals do but you want to train animals now you have to acquire these skills and you really have to have a solid game plan on what I call the five main skills to possess as a dog trainer and I'll start with the first one is for me the

first one prioritize this one movement how do you move in conjunction to your dog can you synchronize with the dog can you move him in certain positions and take it by using technique in the hands and the feet and the movement so he can actually execute these with flow and Grace and Dynamics right so movement is one of your first concerns we're not even talking markers marker is a great a great asset it's not my problem my problem is first can you move then secondly is can you analyze right so can you analyze what happens because I can show you a move and you can move also anyone can move right it's it's not a complex thing but then can you process what happens can you actually see what this does to this dog and what kind of information do you get from doing this all right so can you analyze things visual can you visualize things can you extract information can you process information and then can you come up with new things all right number three is do you control your own control mechanism do you know what stops you from developing why because if you will be perfect why aren't you submitting any videos dear student well I know why because it's never good enough is it you want to show me the perfect routine and because you want to control your process of working how you work the dog you're not submitting anything unless it's perfect so that means you're also not growing because I can't give you feedback I'm not seeing what you're doing you're holding yourself back but if you don't know if you're not aware of this because this is subconscious Behavior you hold on to this because this is the only thing you can control is a working process as a be perfect well then you can't go for it further even though a be perfect is a great driver also to have really nice training it can also stop you you see so now we're not even talking to I see so immediately we switched to okay there's something going on here that doesn't relate to your analytics doesn't relate to your skill but relates to your control mechanism that's stopping you from submitting these videos because you want to have control over the working process and over the Perfection of this execution in this video that you're not submitting anything all right number four is how do we start communicating with the dog verbally because I can move maybe and then and do all these things and then Mark and all that but I haven't said a word to this dog all right so we haven't said a word so how do we start communicating then when you start implementing these words what kind of impact do you want these words to have what kind of response how do you

place them what do you need to take care of like what do you need to think of when you're going to introduce classical conditioning because we as people our communication is completely different than dog's communication so the audio is also a huge thing on how do you a lot of people in the US like um verbal praise verbal encouragement verbal markers and all that kind of stuff and this is all great if you are a master of all the other previous skills for example then you add the audio on top of that great now we have another tool another asset that you've built yes but a lot of people go first through the audio and then after eight months start man this is all sloppy and crappy how do we get the to look like you well I didn't start with the audio you see so our priorities were different so they say well at least I got a marker well show me the marker well the marker is for some people either just a stay command or it's an activation to do whatever you want command now it's not either one of them in my world okay so that's also different you see and and that's how we how we lay out a plan like that's that's what this is about it do you understand when what needs to happen when to prioritize the certain skill or when you can you're ready to combine everything all right now we're now we're going forward so and then last but not least is the grip skill grip like grip for people yes grip for people what does that mean how do you now we're going into library's World also and and my world is how do you now manipulate all these things simultaneously or holding a marker or holding a lease we're holding an e-collar we're doing audio on top of that we're doing analytics we're using our we're using our visuals and we're controlling our control mechanism to stay non-active to not go into these patterns that we know they're gonna set us further from our goals that's a lot who can help us with this a coach that's why everybody needs a coach that's why the best players in the entire world Olympians professional athletes all have a coach there's nobody out there like well I'm just here on the Olympic solo there's no coach there's no back it's just all me are you crazy that's not the case so you will need a coach the question is who can coach you it's not because you have expertise that somebody accepts you as a coach I could be an expert in the domain of e-calls could be an expert in the main of puppies all right that doesn't mean I'm going to have the impact for this person to change his behavior also the question then is outside of the expertise that this person possesses how is he able to communicate and help me

and talk to me and give me confidence and understand my B level so I feel I am connected to this coach and I am I'm willing to accept what he says and make a substantial change so there could be a different outcome that is coaching all the rest people is training advice take it drop it leave it and then had a guy ask me one day hey Nino you know why this always happens people see me train with my dog you know high level it's not it's not a melon why it's like a border collie or something and then people come out and ask him how did you do this and he says I spent an hour explaining them how I do all this and then I see them back three weeks and I just do an exact same thing like they never took my advice I said yeah of course they're not going to take your advice or maybe they could have but they decided not to were you mad at them now and plus your advice was free you think they value that you see people want to yeah they can you can't value what's free what's free in this world you know something valid free these days you're right about I've learned that the hard way believe me yeah we're doing a lot of free first I mean we're doing free podcasts we're doing free sure videos we're doing free whatever Some People Want it All some people ask me on my videos come and say hey show me all the steps what what you got this dog to do in that position I mean yeah come on so you wanna you wanna invest in your own future you know that means you've got to reach out to people and you know there's a price for everything in this world but nobody's making you do anything you can take it leave it you can try it you can you can do whatever same for the caller people always asking what kind of color look I don't know your budget there's a hundred dollar caller I've even seen one of five dollars on Alibaba but you can also go with the thousand dollar one I mean that all depends like what kind of like what kind of reliability do you want what kind of what kind of skill are you able to uh to deploy like you know all that kind of stuff like it's actually a question that is is not so easy to answer what kind of caller I don't know you don't know your dog I don't know what you want like uh I can I can tell you definitely like hey if you're looking into the elite levels I would go to this type of color for example with that kind of remote with that kind of functions you see now we're talking but you can't just answer somebody's question what kind of caller that's a that's a a weird question it's it's almost uh somebody asking hey what kind of breed of dog should I buy you don't know this person you don't know

their goals you don't know their budget you know I mean a quality dog costs a lot of money it's not cheap I mean look the melons are more in demand than ever more than demand than ever so now if you want a puppy well good luck you think you're gonna get first pick we're for 500 dollars you you're thinking no it's not it's not going to be the case even not for two thousand dollars because first pick is not meant for you you see you're new you're not gonna get the first pick the first pick goes to the breeder the first pick goes to the the guy that delivers the stud the first big bit uh first pick goes to the the top level competitor whatever but then again what is first pick what are you gonna do with the first pick if you had a choice how would you do it what would you be looking at what was your goal so many things that go into purchasing a dog completely neglected not being well thought over like and then they think oh overseas it must be better over there let me just import the dog no that wasn't like I made that mistake too you know solo dog to pers people that I thought that will be qualified and they're not and then maybe not qualified as not competent not qualified for that type of dog for that kind of Challenge and those given circumstances so everything can you see the questions on the screen Nino can you see the questions on the screen um the I see no I don't see questions I see responses asks you what's Nino's thoughts on empowering a dog from the use of an e-collar empowering a dog I'm not sure exactly what he means but that was his question yeah where do you see these questions I put it up on the screen you should see it on the screen uh oh here it is here it is what's the what's Nina's thoughts on empowering a dog uh could you explain empowering to me like making him stronger to use a collar yeah I'm not sure what he means the only thing that I could answer to that William is you know what a lot of people don't understand is a dog's ability to escape and avoid negative reinforcement when they understand it is empowering it's rewarding you know and that's why some of the very weak and insecure dogs do so well with the e-collar training when done properly but I'm not sure if that's the answer you're you're looking at I don't understand the question I thought maybe Nina would but I didn't think so yeah maybe he can elaborate a little bit on that yeah what else we have man we've been going on forever here people who are not sick of us yet Lisa said Hello Larry review the really amazing Martin Technologies was it like five thousand dollars that's the Martin system chameleon not five

thousand dollars maybe seven or eight hundred dollars maybe you know something like that um yeah there's a lot of stuff here we've been going on for for a while it's got to be late by you no what's the time there uh I forgot to put on my watch to be honest so let me see it is now oh not six yeah 6 22 p.m gotcha but look I'm having fun here having a conversation with somebody yeah you know you have more questions you know you want to go through some of your questions uh are you gonna pull them up because I still can't see them for whatever reason I thought you had some there with you let me see there's something on my phone yeah hmm okay okay this one is for you Larry what was it like being in that awkward interview interrogation with Ivan body Carlos I'm sorry yeah we already discussed this but you wanna listen I knew I knew exactly what that interview was going to be like that's why I stepped up and did it I knew what it was going to be like there was no no doubt in my mind you know Ivan encouraged me not to do it he didn't think it would it would be good um I knew it wouldn't be good but I wasn't worried about me I thought it was important that people see it I thought it was very important I have no regrets from that whatsoever no regrets especially from the responses to it it has to get I should have gotten people talking and it did right so it has to let people dig a little deeper and find their own way and and going back to what you were kind of talking about just a few minutes ago you know I tell people this all the time listen learn from as many great people as you can but don't try to emulate anyone because it's never going to work you have your own personality your own characteristics your own little quirks and the second you stop being you you're going to fail so take the information but make it your own if you try to copy someone you're going to fail it's not possible you know what I mean and that's really really important because I see people listen there's trainers that have very powerful influence over people and I see them even try to take on their personalities and talk like them and use their words and their style of talking yeah that's that's a week that shows a lack of character and a lack of self-confidence and there's no way you're going to succeed with an animal especially a difficult animal if you can't be yourself so you have to be yourself you know there were times where maybe I started wondering if all the little things I do in the home the behavior all the non-verbal things maybe some of these trainers are right maybe it's not important right maybe it's it's silly

so I tried to get away from it and what I saw was I'll never doubt myself again never doubt myself again because I saw an enormous change and not for the better when I stopped doing the things that I believe in and that I'm very good at the second I strayed away from that because I listened to too many voices I was like oh man what a mistake you know and I'm going to take that away from people that need that oh hell no hell no those are the little things that help the average person that a lot of people will not teach them or just don't know how to teach or don't even talk about so I'll never do that again I I you know there's a lot of people I'm you know with Dante I plan on competing in igp right so that's a first for me I got a lot of work to do there's several people that I'm learning from and being coached from and I've learned a lot from many people but the second that I stopped training the way I train and tried to copy one of them I don't do well I just can't because I have to train like me and one of the things that's funny because uh Lars lens is my tracking coach right I'm working with Lars and and Laura said something to me the other day where I had to just laugh he said just don't be scared of making mistakes just go ahead and do it right because with the tracking it's new to me so all of a sudden I was training different and something that I tell everybody I work with Nino everybody is you cannot be scared to make a mistake and you can't have the dog scared to make a mistake I want the mistakes that's where you're going to learn but yet when it came to tracking I was going against my own advice and the second he said that to me I started having better tracks with my dog because I started doing different things and making it more difficult and throwing in some of my own things that I do in training outside of tracking that have helped me along the way with my dogs you know what I mean so no I don't have any regrets from that podcast whatsoever you know none none at all because I I believe now in the way I do things more than I ever have before so I haven't strayed in any way you know mm-hmm no that that's you know that's how I know you as well is that you don't shy away from a challenge or a call out or somebody you know trying to scrutinize you for whatever reason that is I've been the same look you want to go live let's do it live yeah sure uh there's nothing to hide there's nothing there's nothing that we can't discuss unless you really want to take somebody down purposely like we talked before out of weakness and that's that's just a shitty move but look you've proven your

stuff and uh I'm I'm happy that you do what you do so I have somebody here and I think this is a really good question he says one of my dogs is super sensitive to prong callers of course there's distinction we can make between plastic or metal not sure which one he's he's talking of would you should would you suggest e-color training as okay for this dog so I'm seeing the scenario because we're basing ourselves on these two sentences you get out a dog and you introduce it already to some mechanics and you these mechanics you use maybe a Prank Caller I'm not sure if he's referring to plastic or metal and the dog is showing very sensitive reactions would you suggest an e-car training as okay for this dog so I can see uh this person's concern based on the fact they're not dealing so well with mechanics how do you feel introducing um an e-collar what would concern me about that is why would the dog be so sensitive to the prawn collar right were the mechanics and the approach completely inappropriate for the dog was the dog taught properly so there has to be some kind of error in in the teaching there that created that because a prong collar is not going to cause an issue for a dog unless something created that issue for the dog and so if you go about the same routes of what you understand in learning how the dogs learn and apply that to the e-collar then chances are you're probably not going to succeed with that either you know that's a great answer Larry I love this answer this shows your extreme analytic ability just on two sentences you're already envisioned hey if a dog responds and that super sensitive way to something mechanically that you might do very subtly there might be something wrong in the state of Thrive that use this dog might be something wrong and the in the force that was applied might be something wrong in the conference given to the dog because like you already see this whole movie playing and you're like okay we have to we have to really investigate why this dog is respond that way what you've been doing what was the history what is the age what is the drive level so many things going through this answer and that was a fantastic answer showcasing your analytic ability that's why you're the man and that's why you're having so much success because it is exactly that each time you get a question boom your brain starts imagining these things like what could be what could be an issue here what could have been done like what is a possibility see that kind of answer like somebody might go in and go like well of course not you can't use a new color for that dog I mean it's already sensitive

to a prong no well let's just forget about it that would be the most common thing that you would hear right Common Sense people I think of course it's super sensitive no you're going with the analytics that this deserves every case is individual every process is always subjective to what this person has done with the dog what his skills have have meant to the dog how he assessed it and he says super sensitive but then you know there's so many variables great answer Larry love it thank you um okay you want to do one more sure if the dog works good with the e-collar and then you want to stop using it not depend on it can you focus a little on that I mean how success how I successfully remove the e-color and still remain the same responses from the dog a lot of times the dog knows he is not wearing the e-collar anymore thank you it's a classic but I'd love to hear your response again I think when we deal with the the collar wise dog a lot of that is done through the training right again if the training is not clear before the collar that's a problem so let let's just let's assume that right for me it's very simple if the training is done on point if the dog understands everything you've done up until that point the dog should look the same whether the collar is on or not that's the goal for me my dogs my clients dogs the dog should look the same and respond the same way whether the dog is naked or there's a tool on the dog that's how we train a lot of time a lot of times especially with the e-collar people rush to get through the process they don't put in the work okay they don't put in the work and they're in such a hurry to get the collar off the collar goes on they train they're done training they take it off right they only train with the color on that's one big mistake then they don't spend any time in that intermittent phase where we start teaching the dog to respond whether the collar is there or not okay that's really important and they can't rush through that area that's where a lot of people fail right they go from conditioning the dog using the e-collar every time to no longer using it all and then they're in a hurry to take the collar off for me it's very simple my dogs haven't seen or felt an e-collar in a really long time right but if I'm gonna go out in public and they're going to be off leash and I don't think maybe buddy my golden doodle but if I take Luca out anywhere in public mango anywhere out in public there's nothing that those dogs aren't going to respond to me without the e-coloron they're going to respond to me every time I can guarantee it but yet I still put the

e-collar on for that just in case moment because I'm always going to be prepared for that what if moment because they're animals and they make mistakes and we're humans we make mistakes and you can't control everything you're around so what I tell people Nino if someone comes to me and they're asking when could I stop using the collar we're not using the collar to train and they say no no I want to do it and I say you're not ready to use it because you have this this negative association in your head about this collar and this training has to be pleasant for you and the dog I want you to enjoy it and if you're doing something that you have such a negative association in your head it's not going to be successful so I refuse to I refuse to do it not everyone that comes to me I don't make anyone do we call our trainings matter of fact if someone comes to me and says I'm never going to take my dog off leash I always want him on leash I want to do e-collar training I'd say why why it's save your money save your time it's not necessary right you don't need it you you don't need it so for that that question always leads me to believe as soon as they say when can I stop using it there's that negative association and I don't think you're ready to use it great great great answer cannot agree more with this I'll actually add a little story on top of it just to put things in perspective because this is something very uncommon I'm gonna talk to you about is because what actually would happen if like you and what you just explained Larry is exactly how I train uh Cody one of my competitions dogs it was also operational as a police dog simultaneously and I've trained them exactly like that the only time the e-collar was off was when I was doing the trial when the bell rang of the trial and when I was doing operations so when I got him out of the car he wasn't always wearing a collar but other than that it's always always wearing a collar now what happened was he jumped over the tree heard himself I had to do an RX and some of that messed them up he put contrast fluid in my dog put in CT scan he woke up he got nerve damage all over the place lawsuit for five years anyway story short long story short he was never able to do anything compete or whatever because he has a nerved them she walked really funny he could like sometimes Rob it in his head he was still the same dog he was still having the same energy but he couldn't not execute his exercises anymore so from that day on I never used a collar before because to me then I wanted to give a dog a life here in my yard it wasn't relevant to me because I knew I was

never going to bring him out again to the police I was never gonna you know do a competition again so I I didn't feel like training I wouldn't put any colors on him and guess what Larry for all the years that he lived and he lived for five more years six more years he still responded as if he had an e-collar on him it was like it never was away from him it's like he was still giving me the same responses he was still when I let him bite to sleep sometimes just you know from a down position so he didn't have to move too much he would still get me out of the NC out to say everything this dog was so in control of you know manipulating he thought really that he always manipulated everything that's why he never needed it but then if let's say he he showed that he wouldn't have needed it but now that I can do it again would I then take it off after all those years and not you no I would still do the same thing I would not change anything so and that's what this is about is you you know you know it could and now I had to prove that oh they could do it for years actually still if you've done it right for years they could do without but why why would you so they can doesn't mean you should and I think that's the bottom line that's a great story yeah that sums it up pretty much right there that sums it up right there big time you know Varina all right wants to know what do you guys think about vibration only collars since they are still allowed in Germany um yeah you want me to answer that one sure so I think the vibration caller as if you want to enhance your skills to manipulate buttons and and devices at the same time and and you know try to get accustomed with that I could see where that fits in or you have a a deaf dog that cannot kill you by Audio and there would be vibrations you know that are conditioned to responses Etc I can definitely see that that would have a use I never use it myself personally as introductions or a method of teaching to my students uh not at the police nor in in private so um if you know to me it doesn't mean a whole lot because it will never ever have the same uh impact or the same results as an actual e-collar but if you believe it will help you give give you the confidence to hold the device like I said do multiple skills at the same time then I would say yeah this could be great but since they're not allowed in Germany yeah then the question actually is like like are you looking into using an e-collar and then well you do it like illegally and and so again comes to our first conversation the first half hour of this uh podcast what happens to these people and that's

actually one of my questions for you Larry to maybe close it down what do you suggest that you know a lot of concerned students dog trainers in Europe are now in countries that are facing all these bans and and let's say they hear this and and they want to like develop that skill and they're ready and their dog definitely deserves what is your take on this from your U.S base so this is not like a problem directly for you but what would you suggest if tomorrow this would also be the case in in your state or your country where you know you can use it you know it's going to create a positive impact you know people are sometimes very qualified and dogs can definitely also have great outcomes what would this mean to you if this would happen to you if if they ban the collars here in the states yeah for me it honestly wouldn't mean much okay it wouldn't it would mean that the people that I train my training would be easier because I wouldn't have to put in as much work making sure they're prepared for the tool for millions of other people it's going to be an issue it's going to be a problem and a lot more dogs are going to die because of it because we have to be honest and realistic it's a tool that levels the playing field for the average person that doesn't have the skills or the physical ability to deal with the dog that they have in their home now with that people are going to say well people should stop getting dogs that they can't yeah they should but it's going to happen right it's going to happen and so I know very very competent dog owners that are up there in age or have physical disabilities and have strong dogs or active dogs they're great dog owners but the proper use of this tool gives them and their dogs a full life right A lot of these dogs that wind up in shelters because of behavioral problems would be easy fixes easy fixes for someone who's half competent in dog training and confident with the tool you'd save so many dogs right so many dogs one of the biggest issues we have here in the states and something I've been really preaching for for a long time is we have the people showing the bad when the e-collars are misused and rightfully so they should show it they're going to continue to show it but we see the bad when someone takes a Malinois puppy on a leash and slams It On The Ground breaks their hips they're not looking at at Banning leashes right a scumbag is a scumbag and they're going to abuse no matter what they're using they don't need any kind of tool to abuse a dog but the people that are so scared of using these tools and rely on these tools then you better up your skills as a dog trainer without the tool

to get better results with the tool and then we have to as an industry show more good work you have to show the work not the befores not the afters you have to show the work the mistakes are more important especially the mistakes where you see the dog isn't being destroyed because of the mistakes that education comes from showing the real stuff you know people mock me um we've talked Nino about the way I film things with an iPhone very unprofessional and poor quality when I started making videos instructional videos I used like the oldest phone possible years ago and the quality was awful and when people started watching my videos I said wow I can't believe you guys are watching this stuff I said maybe I'll get some nice photography some nice cameras and some editing equipment and they jumped all over me they said no don't we actually want to see the real stuff we don't want no editing so I don't edit videos and so I will show the sloppy and I'm sloppy I will show the mistakes and I make a lot of mistakes right but until people step up in this country and start actually showing the work and showing what the tool could do on the positive side instead of the [ __ ] before and afters we're going to be right behind Europe and so if we're going to get out ahead of it oh yeah people have to stop talking and start doing more start showing more and so I show a lot of boring stuff I'll I show a lot of first sessions and second sessions with the e-collar with weak pet dogs for a reason for a reason I want people to say this isn't the strongest dog and it looks kind of shitty but maybe if we show it this way and we explain to people what we're doing and we're using the sound box you see everything and you see if a dog has a bad reaction I'm not going to hide it if that dog has a bad reaction but I'm going to show you how we worked through that process and make that dog love everything we're doing no one can hold that against you right they could say I would have started here and I wouldn't have made those mistakes well that's okay I make mistakes I make a lot of mistakes but I'm going to show you where we're going to finish up but I'm going to show you how this tool fits in to a small part of my training program because it is a very small part of my training program and for me we're going on almost three hours I think the most important part out of everything we talked about Nino is we both come back to how important the most simple fundamental Basics are to everything we both do you know and I'm dealing with mostly behavioral stuff and it's still the most important thing and it's still the most important thing that

people are overlooking before they jump right to the e-collar that's all I got to say about that yeah all right that was uh pretty pretty clear so people have to take their responsibility and also showing the good actions showing that you know what this tool can mean also build a community instead of [ __ ] on each other you should actually support each other instead of scrutinizing each other what is through what is false what is working what is not what is you know that that's the problem like our industry has a huge problem collaborating with one another some trainers are even like too proud to have another trainer's name on the same billboard or the same flyer because they could discover the other guy and the other guy might have more influence on the on on their clients like or from this mindset nobody's getting better I think you know if there's so many options for people so many like you said characteristics personalities that Define people and who they are and and who they were gravitate towards and relate to like you know why is it so oh no can't have this guy here because if I'm going he can't come and if I if I'm there he better not show up or where the hell is that so yeah and this is this is the root of the problem like we cannot have a decent discussion even among balanced trainers without you know hearing them call out each other or or you know it's like it's a problem it's a serious problem also which does not help us at all in the long term you know but someone sent me uh someone sent me a video compilation of a trainer that loves to talk about me right and this this person used to be against me and we're in their tight Circle until they finally started seeing wait a minute something's not right here they put together a video compilation of every time I'm mentioned in this guy's lives and podcasts and patreons I couldn't make it to the end I couldn't make it to the end there was so much he never makes it through a conversation without mentioning me either by name or referencing me I I'm very honored by that that I live in someone's head so strongly and I can tell you this I appreciate everyone that stayed with us listen this is almost three hours guys so thank you so much for everyone tuned in yeah but with that being said and I'm always honored to talk to Nino because I love what you do you know I think you're absolutely phenomenal what you're doing and you put out good information instead of breaking people down but with that being said I want to take a special thanks give a special thanks to the haters that are going to spend three hours of their day to sit there and watch talk and then go on to their

platforms and talk about our three hours watching us talk thank you to the haters because that's major dedication major dedication I appreciate you all more than anybody you know that's a good one that's a good note to end for sure so uh well everybody guys thank you for sticking here so long and if you want to chop this in a few you know sessions to listen to it that's what the podcast is really good for is you can multitask you remember multitasking is the path towards Victory now you can go to the gym you can walk your dog you can listen to this podcast at the same time and you know get that get some things going so uh I'm really excited to uh you know to see all this positive things here because actually we're talking about it still is controversial uh controversial topic people are you know really nice uh so look we we will answer any question but unfortunately you know we went in already almost three hours so Larry I'm sure we're gonna set it up again maybe also try a different topic and stuff like that so it's just too fun not to and uh you know if you guys like it let us know and we'll set up a next one so uh Larry this one is going to be free people that's doing it you know appreciate you doing welcome back and uh love what you're doing and like I said I've got nothing but great feedback from all the people taking your your online stuff so I think I think there'll be a lot more people from here looking into it too because you know people are having a blast doing it and the dogs look absolutely freaking amazing and and that's that's what it's all about you know thanks thanks yeah and and we're uh actually you know inviting other trainers as well because I never liked the a kind of Guru status whatever I'm not interested in that I want to provide the best quality for people in dog training where they have multiple areas to to look into and enjoy enjoy themselves and their dogs and and then like the positives and and that in your speech and what you just said so thank you for that for for the people that have tuned in later they want to see the whole thing uh what is it like you posting that Larry as a yeah on Facebook and I'll also put it on YouTube also and uh figure out how to get this sent to you too Nino if you can do it yourself somehow yeah all right great I'll uh all right guys from my channel thank you so much all right thanks so much great as always brother have a good one Pals peace have a good day bye YouTube bye