E157: 에밀리 스트롱(Emily Strong) - "현실 세계를 위한 카나인 인리치먼트"

praying mantids. But I didn't really think it was a possible, like a feasible career, really. And so my fallback plan was vet school. And I started volunteering in vet clinics at a really, a vet clinic at a really young age. And there, I learned the trainer who was kind of affiliated with the clinic that I worked at was, you know, more traditional kind of old school dominance-based methods. And I learned those methods. And I was very good at them. But, but over the years, over the course of about 15 or 16 years, I started to really feel some cognitive dissonance as I started to see that the ways in which I was interacting with animals was directly contributing to their fear or their increased aggression or just damaging our relationship. And I became really depressed because I loved animals and they were my whole life. But the ways in which I was interacting with them was, I just was tired of being the bad guy, right? My mid to late 20s were not, not a good time for me. And I wasn't sure what to do with my life. I didn't want to keep hurting animals to help them. But then I found out about Dr. Susan Friedman and started taking her courses and it completely changed my life. And it just blew my world wide open. And I was like, this is what I want to do for a living. I've always wanted to train animals. And now I know that I can do it in a way that improves my relationship with them and improves their behavioral health. And why would I ever do anything else with my life? This is it. Right. Yeah. So that's how I ended up here. So kind of going from, you know, finding Dr. Susan Friedman to writing a book on canine enrichment, it feels like there should be a little more to that story. Can you kind of share how you went from one to the other? I actually am from Austin and I started behavior consulting in Austin. And while I was there, I started with two of my friends, Austin Parrot Society, which was kind of an information society that became a foster network. And I started implementing some enrichment programs there that were fairly successful. And then I was offered a job to go work at a sanctuary. And so my partner and I moved to Utah and Ali, my business partner, she and I met at the behavior team at that sanctuary. And she also came from a really strong background in enrichment. It was her field of study in college. And she had implemented a lot of enrichment programs in the shelters that she worked with. And so we worked together, the behavior team, on creating these enrichment programs that were really successful in that sanctuary. We were just kind of living our life and doing

our thing and enjoying our jobs. And then a friend, colleague of mine came back from APDT in 2015. And she said, Emily, Dogwise has been trying to find somebody to write a book on enrichment for 10 years. And I told them about you. And I think you should write this book. And I was like, I can't write a book. What are you talking about? I have like really struggled with imposter syndrome. I was like, who am I to write a book? I can't do that. And she's like, just talk to them. I think you're the perfect person to do this. And so I was like, okay. So I spoke to Larry and John at Dogwise. And we had a really good conversation. I was like, well, okay, if I'm going to write a book about enrichment, you know, I can't write this book without Ali. She's my partner in crime. And we do all these things together. And they were like, yeah, that's fine. We can have two authors. That's cool. So I was like, excellent. Okay, cool. So I feel good about this. I'm going to write this book. And then I, you know, ended the conversation. I went, oh, I should probably tell Ali. So then I went up to Ali and I was like, by the way, we're writing a book on enrichment for Dogwise. I've already committed you to doing it. So you don't have a choice. So I love, I love telling people that story because, you know, the whole book that the whole book is about giving learners choice and control over their outcomes. And the grand irony is that I gave Ali zero choices. I was just like, you're doing this. We're doing this together. You're writing a book with me. So, so yeah, I'm a hypocrite. I admit it. So I like that. That's, that's, um, it's kind of a neat, fun story to kind of talk about how you got the deal. Um, before we kind of dive into the book a little bit more, I want to just kind of define some terms. So when you talk about enrichment, how are you defining that term? What do you mean? Ah, thanks for asking that, because that is one of the reasons that we wanted to write the book. Um, enrichment is not what most people think it is. I think most people think of enrichment as entertaining their animals or making their life better. And I think entertainment and, and improving their life is a by-product of enrichment, but enrichment actually had a, a very kind of a serious function in the zoo world. Um, and Dr. Hal Markowitz, the man who kind of innovated this concept of enrichment, um, he was doing it to, to drastically improve the welfare of animals in zoos based on his research that he had done with wild animals. Right. And so, um,

he, the whole concept of enrichment came about from him telling zoos, we need to make their environments more like nature so that we can meet their needs so that they can, um, behave in species appropriate ways so that they can be animals, right? Let giraffes be giraffes, let lions be lions. Right. So the whole idea of enrichment was giving these animals the ability to be who they are essentially. So the, the definition of enrichment or how, how we are defining enrichment is meeting animals' needs in order to empower them to perform species, typical behaviors and safe, healthy, and appropriate ways, which is kind of a long definition. So we functionally shorten it to meeting their needs, right? Right. Just making sure that all of their needs are being met so that they have the ability to be the best version of themselves. And if we're doing that, then yes, the outcome is they are often entertained and their life is better, but we go about that in a very structured, specific way where we're looking at, um, measurable progress, right? And looking at outcomes rather than just sort of the spaghetti approach where we're just throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks. In the book, you kind of take it and you break it up into, um, categories, right? So would you be willing to kind of share an overview of that? How do you guys kind of break it down? And then why'd you break it down that way? Yeah, yeah, sure. Um, so if we're talking about meeting needs, we have to know what those needs actually are. It's not good enough to, to feel or believe or think that we're meeting needs. And in fact, this idea of letting dogs be dogs has kind of become a popular kind of buzz term. But the irony of that is that a lot of the beliefs behind that phrase aren't actually true, right? So, um, so it's really important if we're going to actually meet needs and if we're going to actually let dogs be dogs, we have to know what their needs actually are. And we have to know who they actually are as a species, right? What does a dog need to be physically, behaviorally, and emotionally healthy? And with that as our goal, we worked backwards from there to create chapters that kind of honed in on those specific needs, what they actually are, as opposed to what the cultural fog tells us that they are, and how we can meet those needs. How do we practically do that in our busy lives, right? So we're breaking them down into kind of the broad categories are physical needs, emotional or behavioral needs, and then the kind of loosey-goosey term,

instinctual needs, which I'm sure a lot of researchers would roll their eyes at our choice to use that term. But, you know, what we mean by that essentially is species-typical behaviors. What do they, how do they behave in the wild? And what can we do to allow them to behave that way in captivity, essentially? Mm-hmm. One of the first topics you kind of dive into, and you kind of mentioned it earlier when you're talking about your story about getting Allie to write the book with you, is this idea of agency and how that plays into enrichment. So again, kind of what is agency, and then how does it play into enrichment? Yeah, that's a great question. So agency can be defined as providing a learner with control over their outcomes, giving them choices and the ability to have some control over what happens to them, right? And wild and feral animals have agency by virtue of being wild or feral. They have absolute control over their outcomes and the whole buffet of choices available to them that the environment provides. But for animals in captivity or domesticated animals, we have to go out of our way to provide that for them. It's fine and dandy for us to believe what we believe about having dominion over animals or being alpha or whatever, but animals don't know what we believe about why we're doing what we're doing to them. They only know what they're experiencing, right? So we need to really make sure that they have a say in what happens to them, because when we're not giving them that control over their outcomes, by definition, it isn't enrichment, right? If they aren't choosing to engage in their environment and their social interactions and what we're offering them, then it's just a bunch of nice stuff or nice ideas. It's not really enrichment, right? So agency isn't really an aspect of enrichment. To me, it's the litmus test of whether or not what we're trying to do is in fact enrichment. Are they choosing to interact? Do they have control over that interaction? If so, yes, it's enrichment. If not, then it's just stuff that's happening to them. Is it possible to have too much choice, too much agency? Yeah, sure, right? So safety is an aspect of enrichment, I should say, but oftentimes safety, in order to make sure that they're safe, we have to limit their choices, right? So my favorite sort of story to illustrate this point is when I was two years old, my parents bought a house, and the construction workers had left a box of nails in one of the bedrooms. So my parents were moving furniture in, and they suddenly realized I was gone and quiet.

And my dad, yeah, never a good thing for a toddler, right? So my dad walked into the room, right as I'm about to stick a nail into an outlet. And he screamed, Emily, and it scared me. And I, you know, dropped the nail and I started crying. So that was a really effective strategy for keeping me safe in that moment. But that was not his parenting strategy for teaching me. Like, you know, the way the way he handled that in the future was not like, okay, I'm going to put Emily by this outlet and give her a box of nails. And every time she tries that, I'm going to scream at her, right? But also, I mean, on the other end of that spectrum, his parenting strategy also wasn't, you know, well, we've got to give her choices. Let's just like leave her in the room with a box of nails and hope she makes the right choice. Like, that's not how it works, right? You can't give them complete control over their outcomes. So what that looked like for him as a parent was getting the nails out of my reach and putting outlet covers on the outlets so that I didn't have that choice. I couldn't choose to stick a nail in an outlet because that would not have gone well for me, right? So I imagine not. Right. Definitely not. So that's as true for our non-human family members as it is for children, right? We have to limit their choices when it comes to safety, their safety and public safety for sure. But if the rest of their life is filled with an abundance of choice and control over their outcomes, those limitations that are necessary are not going to damage their behavioral health, right? Yeah, that makes sense. So I mentioned that's kind of where the book starts, but from there, it kind of works its way through the other categories you mentioned, as much as I'd love to. We can't quite hit on every single piece, but I've kind of pulled out little tidbits, you know, that jumped out at me to ask you about. So one of those things was, you mentioned this in passing, this idea of safety and security and the role that they play in enrichment. And you kind of noted in the book that they're different and important ways. So can you talk about that a little bit? Sure. Yeah. So think of safety as the act of being protected from harm and security as the feeling of being protected from harm or the perception of being protected from harm. So to kind of help suss those two out a little bit more, we can talk about my partner's dog, Copper. And when my partner and I first met, Copper had a lot of fear of new things and different weird

things. And one of the things he was scared of was boxes. So we know that he was perfectly safe around boxes. He was, in fact, protected from harm because boxes are not going to harm him. But his perception was that he was not safe around boxes. So he didn't feel secure around boxes, even though he was safe. Conversely, I had a client with a Yorkie who would try to be the fun police to much larger dogs. Like anytime her Yorkie saw like Great Danes playing, he would try to run in and be like, don't you're not supposed to have fun. And so the Yorkie felt quite safe. He was he was I mean, he felt quite secure, right? He was he had no problems running up to those playing Great Danes. But we know he wasn't safe because he could have gotten stepped on or kicked. Right. And he would have been injured because he's a little three pound little micro dog. So, you know, he couldn't he couldn't lay down his little Yorkie law because he even though he felt quite secure, he was not, in fact, safe. So those are two different aspects of enrichment. An animal can't be physically and behaviorally and emotionally healthy if they are endangered. But also animals won't perform the kind of behavioral diversity that is necessary for physical behavior and emotional health if they don't feel safe. In fact, are you familiar with Berghart's five laws of play? I'm not five criteria for play. So when we're looking at animal behavior and trying to determine whether or not this behavior is play behavior, there's these five criteria for defining play. And the fifth criteria for defining play is that play is only initiated when animals are well fed, healthy and free from acute or chronic stressors. So in other words, if they don't feel safe, it's not play. We don't play when we feel safe. Right. So in order to be behaviorally and emotionally healthy and perform the behavioral diversity that we want to see in an animal, they they need to feel safe. For the most part, right? We, you know, yes, I know we've all seen nature documentaries where animals are being hunted, but that's not what their life looks like all the time. Right. So so it's really it is fundamental to enrichment. I think those are very important and often overlooked aspects of enrichment. So like I said, I'm kind of going to ping pong around here a little bit. But in chapter six, then you kind of mentioned this idea that often people sort of shrug and assume that some behaviors are just genetic, but in reality that it's more complicated than that, that

really, it's not so much that behaviors are genetic, they're modal action patterns. And that was a new phrase for me. So first, can you kind of say what is a modal action pattern? And then what do you mean by they're not genetic and they are modal action patterns? Yeah. Well, I wouldn't say that modal action patterns aren't genetic. I mean, I mean, they are animals within a breed or a species inherit, inherit those modal action patterns genetically through genetics. Right. But what we meant by that, when we were talking about that in the book, is that it's a lot more complicated than nature versus nurture. So modal action patterns are unlearned behavior sequences that are typical to a species or a breed. And by unlearned, we mean they they don't need to be taught them by anybody after they're born. They're born knowing how to do it. Right. And these behaviors always happen in a predictable sequence. Once they start, they tend to, unless they're physically stopped in some way, or I guess, psychologically stopped in some way, those sequence of behaviors tend to carry on out to completion. So this thing that we call prey drive, for example, is a modal action pattern and that behavior sequences stalk, chase, catch, kill. Right. Now we have bred some dogs to not do the kill part or to not do the stalk part. So we, we through breeding can genetically influence modal action patterns. But the, the point is that they are unlearned and they are typical to either the breed or the species that we're looking at. So here's why it's more complex than just nature versus nurture. The thing about modal action patterns is that even though they're an unlearned sequence of behaviors, the context in which those behaviors occur is learned. So if modal action patterns were purely genetic and you know, like maybe it's Maybelline, maybe she's born with it. Right. If that were the case, then every dog would chase and it would, that prey drive modal action pattern would kick in, in every dog in the same context with the same intensity, you know, always to the same animal. Right. But that's not what we see. We see that some dogs chase squirrels and don't care about horses. Some dogs chase horses and cattle, but don't really care about smaller animals. Some dogs specifically chase rabbits and leave birds alone. Other dogs chase birds and couldn't care less about rodents. Some dogs don't really chase anything. Some dogs chase everything. Right. Some dogs will only chase something if it's shrieking or moving. Other dogs will chase

something even if it's trying to freeze and be totally still. So we see a lot of variation in this because the context in which these behaviors are performed are learned contexts. And what that means is that we can do something about it. So it's really important to understand that if an animal has a strong tendency to perform a species typical behavior that we find in some way, a nuisance behavior, or dangerous behavior, we can and should provide safe and appropriate outlets for those behaviors, and prevent them from practicing them in their old contexts and teach them a different replacement behavior in those old contexts. Because if we believe that there's nothing we can do about it, then a lot of times the conclusion of that is just spending a lifetime trying to suppress that behavior. Right. Or sometimes the conclusion is rehoming the animal, or sometimes the conclusion is euthanasia. I'm not going to get into the topic of behavioral euthanasia because it's a huge topic and not really the purpose of today. But I want to just say really quickly, the caveat is I'm not claiming that there's never a case for behavioral euthanasia. There absolutely is. But a lot of times euthanasia is recommended for things that are really, really malleable. We can do something about it. Right. And from an enrichment standpoint, if this animal is offering these species typical behaviors, we should provide safe and appropriate outlets for them to perform those behaviors, instead of just constantly getting angry at them for, you know, whatever it is that they're doing, chewing on the sofa or barking at the squirrels. Let's give them appropriate outlets for the chewing and the barking instead of just getting mad at them all the time. Right. Right. And I'm glad that you included the caveat in there because I think that there are a number of people who listen who that's a sensitive spot for them. So I think that that's really helpful. So another thing that kind of jumped out at me in the book was the content on social structures and dogs, which I know, again, you kind of teased the alpha theory a little bit earlier. I think our audience in particular is probably pretty aware that that theory has been pretty much debunked when it comes to dogs. But it really sounds like there's been a fair amount of research done since then on what social structure actually is like, both in wolves and then in dogs. And I know this is kind of a big question. Can you sort of talk us through some of that, what some of that research is and what it

looks like? Yeah. Yeah. So let's just do a Reader's Digest version because it is a huge, it's a huge topic. So Reader's Digest version is that dominance does exist in dogs, but not in the way that sort of that cultural fog or pop culture talks about, right? With this, these rigid hierarchies based on conflict where you've got to like be the biggest dude to like get to be the alpha. That's not what dominance actually looks like. In dogs, hierarchies exist, but they are fluid, contextual, and temporary. They're among specific individuals and it's about controlling specific resources. So I think this is funny because I've had many, many clients tell me, I can't figure out who's the alpha in the house because, you know, Gigi always eats first, but Fluffy gets to decide who sleeps in bed and who doesn't. And Fido really controls the toy box, right? So I think we have a problem in our house that our dogs don't know who's alpha and we need to like establish this pack, right? And I'm like, no, they actually have, they've got it all worked out, right? They've decided who controls access to which resource and there's no conflict. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right? There isn't a problem here. So I think one of the most important things to kind of understand that is in direct conflict with the cultural fog about dominance is that a dominant submissive paradigm only exists in stable relationships where deference is given, it's not taken. And so if there is that really good kind of, we've all sussed out who controls what, it's because that relationship is strong and clear and every animal has this good relationship with each other. Conflict over resources indicates insecure individuals and unstable relationships, which is really ironic, right? Because everybody who has been taught that kind of alpha dog paradigm is going around kind of forcing alpha roles on dogs, thinking that they're saying I'm the boss when that what they're actually communicating is I'm insecure and we don't have a stable relationship, which kind of cracks me up, right? And no judgment, no criticism because been there, done that, got that t-shirt. Like I said, I trained that way for 16 years. So I'm not making fun of individual people, but I think it is funny that when we rely on myths, we end up often communicating the opposite of our intentions. The other thing that's kind of important, I think, I shouldn't say kind of, is very important is that there's not really a lot of evidence that dogs are pack animals. Intraspecific cooperation, which just means cooperation among members of the same species

is not innate in dogs. The studies that they've done show that dogs don't really understand how to coordinate like a pack does. And more often than not, feral dogs will only pack up during breeding season. And otherwise, the rest of the year, they're living alone or just in pairs. And I think this is important. And the reason we devoted a huge chunk of the social chapter of the book to talking more in depth about this is because if we are trying to meet our dog's social needs, and if we're trying to enrich them, but we're carrying these beliefs with us about pack animals and alpha dogs and stuff, then the ways in which we're trying to meet those needs are often inappropriate. For example, if we believe that dogs are pack animals, and they have to be socialized, or social, and we're cramming a bunch of dogs into a play group to make them play and make them be social, what is that actually doing for them? What is the actual outcome of that? When these dogs aren't actually particularly dog social, and they don't really want to play with a bunch of other dogs, and they don't enjoy it, and they don't feel safe, and they're not in fact playing, we think we're doing a very good job of enriching them, when in fact, we're kind of torturing them. You know, it's kind of a big deal. It's kind of a big deal to know this stuff. Like, how can we actually meet their needs if we don't know what their social needs are, right? Right. For those who are listening who want to go look up, you know, some of the studies and stuff, and some of the information, it is all in the book, and it's in chapter eight. So that's kind of where they get into that stuff. So I could totally kind of talk to you about stuff all the, about this stuff kind of all day, but I'm sure you have other things going on in your life, and I know it's late in the evening for both of us. So I've got one more kind of question on the book, and then kind of three questions I usually ask at the end, the first time I have somebody on. So my question for you is, where can folks go for the book? And then I know you're doing a webinar for us at FDSA on this stuff. So can you just share a little bit about what you'll get into there? Yeah. So you can find the book on Amazon in paperback or also on Kindle. And if you want to support small businesses, you can buy it directly from dogwise.com. And dogwise also sells it either as a paperback book or an ebook. So four options for buying the book. As for the webinar, I'm really excited to have this opportunity to do this webinar for FDSA. Because while Ali and I were writing the

book, we realized that explaining the what and the why in the book was really only half of the picture for helping people to kind of implement these concepts, right? And in our last chapter, which is called Putting It All Together, we introduced this idea of an enrichment chart to objectively assess like what are our actual enrichment goals? And how are we implementing them? And are they actually achieving our intended effect, right? So we implement this chapter and the spider protocol in that last chapter, but it kind of became clear that we couldn't really help people with implementation within the limitations of a single chapter like that. So we set out to create resources to help people utilize enrichment in a variety of ways. So we've created some resources for pet owners, professionals and sheltering organizations. And this webinar is one of the resources we've created for pet owners. So we see a lot of our clients working really hard to enrich their dogs, but then feeling frustrated or discouraged because their dogs still have some unmet needs, which makes them feel kind of like they have to do even more and work even harder, like their best is never good enough. And you know, how demoralizing is that? So, so we kind of we, the webinar is going to be focusing on more is not necessarily better, we can work smarter, not harder by finding efficient, sustainable and fun ways to meet all of our dogs needs, without putting all of our eggs in just one or two enrichment baskets and working really, really hard at those one or two things. And better yet, we can improve our relationship with our dogs by doing so. So that's what the webinar is going to be about essentially understanding enrichment and using it to make our dogs lives better, our lives better and improve our relationship with our dogs. And people who listen to the webinar will have access to a free resource on how to do this with the enrichment chart and how to use it and stuff like that. So we're really, really excited about this webinar. Yeah, so I've got three questions here that I usually ask, you know, at the end. So the first one, what is the training related accomplishment that you're proudest of? Honestly, when I think about it, the thing I'm proudest of has nothing to do with dogs or big complicated behavior issues. I think my proudest moment was a couple of summers ago when I realized that I could train the wasp in my backyard to station. I know it sounds funny, but I had this moment where I realized I could train this wasp to station away from the faucet so that I could water

my plants without being afraid of the wasp or having to kill the wasp. I've kind of been afraid of wasps my whole life. But then I observed that this little guy was just trying to get water. It was hot and dry and he was thirsty. And so I was like, oh, well, what if I use water to reinforce him flying to this dish away from the faucet? And it only took about a week or two. And then every time I'd go out in the yard, he'd see me and fly over to his little dish and wait for water so I could get to the faucet without, you know, to water my plants without getting into a conflict with this wasp. And that was a huge accomplishment for me. And I know that sounds kind of silly, but training a wild wasp was, I think, my proudest moment. That's pretty cool. I like that. So my next question here, what's the best piece of training advice that you've ever heard? You know, I'm sure I'll think of something brilliant at like three in the morning. But right now, I think probably the best advice I've heard was from one of my mentors when I was first learning how to become a behavior consultant. And she could see I was beating myself up for kind of the training mistakes I was making. And she said, don't worry about being imperfect in training. When you realize that training is a conversation and you're listening to your learner, they'll tell you when they don't understand what you're asking them. And then you can ask them, does this make more sense? And then they can say yes or no. And you just keep having that conversation until you both reach your end goal. And that really helped me to stop being such a perfectionist and beating myself up and just enjoy the conversation. And I don't think training would be as fun for me if I hadn't gotten that advice and if I was still kind of really stuck on being perfect. So I think that's my answer for now. I think that's a pretty good answer. All right. Last one. Who is somebody else in the training world that you look up to? Well, okay. I can't not mention Dr. Friedman because she's been there for me throughout my whole journey over the past 12 years. You know, she chides me for being hyperbolic, but I'm not being hyperbolic when I say that she saved my life. I was not in a good place when I started learning from her. And she, you know, opened up the whole world for me. So definitely her. And of course, Ken Ramirez, I mean, hashtag life goals, right? Especially his work with wildlife and insects, like especially because I, you know, grew up training praying manneds and I had this experience training a wasp. I mean, I like just

look up to him so much for stuff like that. But aside from like the giants in our field, I think the person I really, really look up to a lot is a bird trainer named Helen Deshaw. She's the curator at Tracy Aviary here in Salt Lake City. And her training is so elegant. I mean, you think about the fact that she is working with wild animals. They're not domesticated species. And they're a free flighted. And it looks so effortless when she does it. I've watched a lot of bird trainers in my life. And, and it's so effortless with her. And she has such an incredible joy that translates like everybody can see that joy. And she has the most incredible bond with these birds. And her insights, she's, she's just very insightful. Every time I talk to her, I come away with something new. So seriously, if you ever come to Salt Lake, you need to go to Tracy Aviary and watch one of her bird shows. She, she has a lot to teach all of us. Yeah. She's my hero for sure. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Emily. Yeah. Thanks for having me. And thank you to our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week with Denise Fenzie to talk about the circle method for loose leash walking, camp, and tease a few new things on the horizon. Don't miss it. If you haven't already, subscribe to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzie Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzie for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by bensound.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training.