에피소드 25: Hari Arčon

yeah yeah yeah I know I know I know this is a I think in a lot of countries is like that when you live right at the border you have that luxury to to be allowed to go because you you actually have family probably on the other side too yeah because after the second war um 1946 47 the when the second war finish the Americans they make the the border and they took the white color and they just designed that's the line the line and so this is Italy this is Slovenia and this is who will come to the nova gorita for the world championship this year they can see this uh this uh this uh this this is the things oh yeah yeah yeah I remember yes yes I actually have seen it I have a picture on on this yes and so and um the other thing that I know that we haven't really talked about but I mean you you also did helper work and on a big championship right right uh I was a beginner in that time and I I learned the helper work in Italy with one my mentor was um was a Slovenian man who live in Italy in Italy in this time was uh very active in the dog sport and for us because in my region was the dog sport no development was just yeah right my father and something you know it was more uh east part Ljubljana and uh around but my my region was very poor so we moved to Italy and trained dog we trained in the dog in Italy uh but in the Slovenian part of Italy because we still have miniorans slovenian miniorans in Italy and we have italian miniorans in Slovenia so uh I I drive every day kilometers for training crazy dog people and uh yeah um uh this was between 1987 to 1989 then I I was uh involved in the military uh period for one year I was still Yugoslavia you know and I was in uh in the in the military but I was all the time involved in the dogs because we have dogs for the security service for uh for the magazine of the armies and all these things so it was a good experience and this time we have we had the German Shepherd and the Sharplanina Shepherd so you have to you have to I I I know the dogs because we we lived in the same region so I you know but these are uh basically like a mountain type of dogs right like the Caucasian like they're tough herding guard dogs yeah because we we was we was in big uh wood and it was four kilometers of area to to to protect you know it was one military and dog military and dog and this dog was was very very strong no prey drug but direct guarding to the person badass oh so and uh I finished this period and I came back and then we start the war in ex-Yugoslavia 90.

I remember I was in Prague with my father we compete in one Satsi tournir and start the war so we we come back then it was uh this short period three months for months a little bit of uh fair and uh yeah and everything you know uh and then uh yeah in 1992 was the world championship and that was uh the w s v right the w was he was first one in 1989 in maribor okay so that was a european championship or something yeah yeah yeah i think in maribor was the word already the second one because the first was european then was first uh i think in in um in germany there was the first one the world championship and the second one was in maribor in 1989 and 1992 was the fci world championship in lubljana bert ertz won right that's right with lex that's right lex that's right wow man he was so young back then too like i was i was 21 in that yeah wow in 1992 was the world championship was around 80 and something dogs so the fci uh reigned from one competition to another the the equipment for the helper was the from frabo you know in that time all later and i remember it was three days the world championship raining like hell and we was like uh astronaut no nothing gets heavy so this was my i was helper after four normal trial in slovenia and that time i was was helping the world championship no pressure right when you are in the full drive you know the pressure is positive and then i mean you you are very very respected judge how how did you get into the judging part because not everybody likes to do that it's very difficult for some people like i for myself you know i always ask you well when is the next camp i want to come but to actually to judge a competition like you just did you just flew to the states to judge the german shepherd qualification trial and then you have to go back so there is a lot of traveling involved with judging how what what made you go to to to become a judge like what was the what made you like that side of the we we must go a little bit back from because i make it i made my judge license in 2002 but uh it's um it's a way how i decide to follow the dog sport you know because in 1992 was the world championship then my father in this time five five times compete in wsc okay wow uh in my family also my brother compete in the fci world championship me only mum no mama was for to take care about the dogs at home and uh yeah um interesting is this you know uh um i made in this time my training fields in uh close to the close to the border it's still working and it's time come a lot of a lot of dogs in for the training you know

soldier showed dogs from like rottweiler or show dogs like german shepherd and this time i was also helper for the some different care room etc etc and i remember it was one evening and i say now i have to stop this because in i take the decision i will not train dogs for seven points i want to see and understand the quality and uh i build up a new group of the competitors in this time i train a lot of new people new become from nothing with the first dog and i bring these people to the world cup different or doberman or fci or wsc and i start to follow a little bit of philosophy and i still have this philosophy of the call now they are old but from the people from the judges with a lot of a lot of experience one of these was like etio gorino roman in italy gunter digger hans of the mauer you know yeah you're getting all those people right yeah i follow this this and i can tell you now i really understand the point of this philosophy you know it's it's not easy because uh today it's more but also in this time was a lot of influence positive and negative influence of uh of how how what is good and what is bad and uh then in 2001 i organized the world championship in nova gorita the first one fci i was around 30 next time you got to one and nobody nobody nobody nobody believe me and i say you are too young for the world championship i say no problem right and then you did i mean how many times you you and i mean there was quite a few championships in nova gorita and you and this year again you're making it happen right yeah it was 2001 2006 2016. right 2012 was universal ziger called german shepherd and this one it's uh happened you know because this war in the the plan was in osco and then fci asked me if he can do in nova gorita say okay mm so it's a little bit extra date but yeah i'm sure it's gonna be a great event now now you you've done it so many times that you kind of know always same people from the beginning always the same people that's that's the thing i mean it's so it takes so it's difficult what is the hardest thing when you organize this kind of competition i know no matter like i mean you have a very nice area and opportunities but it still has to be difficult to make the organization right the hardest thing is to have people which you you can trust around you i have miran marsh our president of the working commission i have sasha cwek is um um guy who who was 2001 2006 2016 and 2023 and miran same and uh i have people around you know when you make a good job and you respect the people and you respect the sport the people don't forget this

okay don't forget like don't forget wrong things or bad things but also some good things so it's uh after i think all these events we have also a position to do you know it's a little bit different so i remember the first one or this one it's yeah but the people they are important because when you make a deal when you decide and you take the decision you must be 100 these people will do and then you have the extra bonus because of the the football team and everything right like how tell tell everybody how are you still involved with the with the football in in there or no i i i make the step back after eight years uh was enough was enough i took the club was on the uh on the points to bankroot and i put the dog sport philosophy you know our philosophy discipline focus training but for the football players sometimes it's too difficult to do our mentality it's a little bit different because you know um my opinion is um our sport is individual sport but anyway anyway anyway the dog the the the football is we say it's a team sports it's it's an individual sport yeah because everyone take care about himself and to put everything together is not easy you know and this is same like put together the the dog and the person the helper and the trainer and also in the nationals you know um when you have 100 dogs in concurrence is one way when you have 10 dogs is different way you know and the people they smile together but they hate together you know right right yeah this is human humans this is this is humans this is normal you know yeah you also did uh uh with with a giant schnauzers right like something yeah we we made one championship yeah but this is not my they just asked me to do it and we organized but i have nothing to do with the giant okay okay so 2002 you you how long is in slovenia to to become a judge what is the what what does it take minimum three years to five years impossible before three years impossible so i start i think in 99 something like that or 98 yeah and then i finish in 2001 or two i i already don't remember but after uh after um um my my my my big experience my big experience to understand the body language and how the dog feel and how the dog they react was my experience in the special force in italy i work with the in the special force uh like not like policemen but from outside for 10 years oh wow we really train dogs for the for the real mission they have to yes and this this is this is this is all the time in my head you know it's um the um if the dog is real or is fake if the exercise is uh if the behavior

of the dog is real or is fake that's very cool because yeah that's because you you you you directly experience you know yeah what what we are doing you remember uh uh it's um you was it was completely let okay right yeah yeah yeah you judge me of course this is this was the first time uh i think that was the first time you judge me that's when i won the world championship yeah it was in this hippodrome you remember yes but what i remember mostly was the the helper work at the time like it was a little bit difficult to i think it was altogether a little bit uh um uh a wrong mix you know the the field was the field was very heavy difficult the helpers without any experience the dogs was the dogs for some really good dog stuff remember yes so you've judged like how many i mean i don't think you even know how many world championships you've judged because i know you've judged at least one time every big one but i'm sure that it's i mean it's quite a few times that you've judged the world championships fci fmbb um the other breeds for sure yeah yeah box rottweiler which is your favorite part of of like the judging what do you like the most to judge i mean i know protection yeah protection tracking i i evaluate tracking and protection a little bit in same same in same way um um uh protection of course because uh you know it's i was helper for many years i train dogs so i have and i hate tracking i hate tracking in the beginning i put a lot of energy and i train my dogs and in sevilla i remember i get 100 so from hate tracking to 100 it's a long long way you know but i understand many things many things in this in this period so it's um you know tracking it's in one side you have a field or meteor condition or field condition who who always make one kind of question this question is are you able to do it and the protection is a little bit similar you know you are a helper who put a little bit of pressure or also make a question and say are you able to do it and the dog must give answer and this is the way of philosophy like between obedience is okay it's not my favorite i i i'm not for example if i say okay protection tracking or protection tracking and yeah because the obedience is more of a orchestrated thing that tracking and protection you really you're kind of looking for the natural what what is what is in there in that dog right and you have like right now what what is your position at the utility dog commission like what i'm i'm a a member i'm a member and i help in the in the new regulation we we prepare for the and the writing group and

i did also part of uh seminars for the judges protection and tracking okay yeah because i know you you know last seminar last seminar was in napoli i i i knew protection and tracking yeah yeah you you always make a uh some presentation and the judges camps and everything i remember when you what years was it when you came to you just awdf and and we asked you to make a like was it before or after yeah before competition you made a beautiful presentation back then i wish we i wish that we made a a video of that for for for our judges and you know but i don't think we ever did it but this was a good one um you know like i still remember when and i maybe maybe i i you you tell me that again because it will be interesting for for all the the people that are listening as far as uh there was a a point when you were like okay you know like to to get the excellent and to get the very good and the excellent how it takes to be you know you have to have the dog you have to have the training but the dog has to be there like he cannot just because you have good obedience you cannot you know the dog has to bring the character and everything for an excellent performance you know what i'm saying like you you i will i will i will i will try to answer you okay you are you are a great coach you're a great trainer you know you you you you know exactly what you have in your hands exactly right so um i think uh to save the dog sport or to save the quality of breeding we must honestly go to the primary primary target and primary target it's breeding dogs with natural reaction so you know it's um your podcast you call uh uh training without uh conflict right why why we build conflict to build different kind of behaviors to search some different kind of behavior so um i come from the from the old school and from the reality the dog must be able to bite must be able to show natural aggression we we speak about natural aggression natural aggression is something inside you know yes yes so um if the if the field ask the dog you are able to search for this field the dog must be must have insight and say yes i can i can do it okay if the dog during the protection receive the frustration receive the frustration from the helper and uh pressure must be able to have a natural reaction a response natural aggression is just you know to be stable and say okay now stop you kick me you stop or you kick me i kick you that's it it's very easy so i think um we produced from ourselves our problems in the in the dog sport you know because

um we all i would say in different uh way uh i respect the trainers because they always they are like you know uh inventors they always found the way to produce different picture right we are artists to create the behavior without the the what's inside yeah you can you can you can you can eat parmesan cheese in germany but it's not parmesan cheese because because the cow is not the same the grass is not the same and uh area is not the same and uh the cantina to to make him older it's not the same you understand so you cannot build something if you don't have a material so important is the red line the red line is the material so to produce or to breed the dogs with good stability of nerves with natural aggression natural aggression i don't need to see with the eyes something some dogs who show the teeth outside i want to see the reaction right of the dogs the the response to have the immediate the reaction and the reaction come from genetic yeah you know i was i was uh i i in 1995 it was the wsv championship in hungary and uh harua masuda from japan right he was sitting on tribune i look one dog from hungary i don't know who was the handler and i don't remember more the dog but i know it was a great german shepherd dog and uh we've looked this dog and uh you know transition face perfect bite out back and harua was close to me and say hey hurry come with me and we go to the parking place we search this guy fortunately he speak german you know he was speaking german and harua asked him how you teach this transition face and loud and he say i don't know he do himself yeah and harua say this is genetic the good dogs yeah you understand yes so this is this is this is one of of of point to understand a little bit the dog sport you know and and and and i i understand many handlers they are disappointed sometimes with the with the points of the judge mostly from me you know they say okay but uh they the people must start to understand what is a real limit of the dog right because if you don't respect the limit of the dog you go over when you go over you build nothing oh in 2023 many dogs they are over the limit and when you say over the middle limiting in in what kind of like uh just more more trained but not natural is that what you mean uh okay i will go step back you know we have two in how long you are in the dog sport well i yeah i mean i started also kind of mid 80s but of course we did some russian military stuff you know 40 40 years for sure for sure good question now how

how big changes was in 40 years in the regulation not so big i think there was a lot of changes like i man it's my one of my questions but there but there but there are always six blinds sit in motion down with the recall number three i i i ask you in the in the regulation in the standard in the standard you know this is saying like we have a standard for labrador and we have same standard for german shepherds but in the standard in 100 years how big changes have no one post step and it's written the standard for german shepherd but today we have german shepherd over 65 today we have german shepherd longer with the back side uh they cannot walk uh normal uh they cannot jump normal and this is this is this is what i want to tell you this is over limit yeah yeah yeah over limit we go over limiting the breathing we go over limit with the nurse we go over limit with the with the uh with the training so in our igp standard we have the dog must be able to change the drives from prey drive to natural aggression uh the guarding must be active now before was dominant direct we have these words for many years right right but but we have after 40 years guarding phase in different pictures the dog who wait the dog who are in expectation the dog who are in active guarding but not with the dominant we have few dogs in the world few dogs in the world with the dominant okay and now i come because i i i remember you are a free healing i was judging you or looking you a few times in the world championship you know but you have your style and i if i remember your free free free free healing your dog walk in the correct position right not to front not to back no pushing to the handler in the right position like regulation say but many people will say the dog of the balabano is not active right because they they want to see the dog who push all the time and now what we have in 2023 that not so often but many years ago the dog who are with the back side of the body on the ground yes yes like like you're watching two like if you split the dog in two you're watching two different dogs you know you know what they teach the old people the old men's to me when you are judged on the field you have to evaluate and separate the good and the bad things imagine the family come with the children to the tribune and this child look something wrong this is something negative for our sport you must say stop i think it's a time to say you must say face to face or open the book like i do in the last seminar in the napoli i say we must say

drastic this is wrong too front or too big or too high or too up is same mistake overdrive or low drive is the same mistake because we must search the balance in the regulation is written the dog must walk in the normal work focus to the handler and no pushing to the handler and must walk in the normal steps like the normal dog must walk so we we must found this this this balance you understand yeah yeah yeah yeah and same is in the protection we have dogs in expectation come on we have dogs who is looking the helper because he think he has a ball inside exactly he's in obedience we have we don't have this in the regulation and the regulation they are 40 years nearly the same what they written the old men's and people's behind us we always just push and push this way of the philosophy but we lose the sense we have labradors with the head of rottweilers rottweilers we have a head of mastino german shepherd we have you know you have if you have a german shepherd with 63.5 what is the medium size they will say this is the small but go to the standard right right standard is always the same and the regulation they are always the same we have we have to start to read and respect this you know what is it is the people are afraid the people are afraid to say sorry man your dog is 75 you must go out yeah there is a lot of difficult or or or or say your dog feel very bad it's over limits i must stop disobedience or i must stop this protection we must start to do this because otherwise the people will not understand this is my opinion yeah and and and it starts to drastically change the modern dog like you know um i was gonna ask you how do you feel about or you know what let me ask you first this because you you're in the utility commission and and i always i'm curious about this why did we constantly kept changing the name of the sport like typically in my idea when we have a sport and you you're in the football and everywhere like imagine of the football team changing their name every five or ten years there is no like you you lose the identity of the sport and everything so how did it happen to where we had it shoots home then was there something between shoots home and ipo did it go ipo then igp but like why why did we end up changing the name so much i think the what i understand in the past okay shoots and ipo was two organizations was wsv or sv have this part of the protection and all these things and then ipo come out and they put one program and this was good okay from ipo they changed to igp i think because

in the beginning was the idea to put him in the uh because uh igp is international the browse from the proof the browse hunde working from working dogs okay because uh if you if you if you say to somebody what is your uh competition my competition is international uh proof they will say okay this was the idea and the support and it's okay it's okay but it's very important um because the people say this is our sport okay i think uh we the the big challenge in the future it's to take the decision or is this is our sport or this is our uh competition or test or trial how we select the dog anyway anyway you know the technology of the formula one they use in the normal production with the high level cars you know brakes gears uh many stabilizers many things they then in the in the where they use in the formula one they put in the technology of the normal production of the cars for me it's very important when i select teams dogs championship anyway to put the right quality training method and the right quality of the dogs so only the high quality dogs and high quality trainings they come to the excellent right they come to the excellent right i must like a judge explain to the people on the tribune uh very one very important thing to say okay example Ivan this dog who is a medium level trained well and for this get high good good because training was very high the quality of the dog is a medium brings high good harry trained this super dog in the wrong way and he get good because the quality of the dog is high and bring up but the quality of the training is not high level and bring good and this must people understand so because we have to to to to show and to make a clear information this is the right way of the training doesn't matter you know all all brings to rom okay one one use one and one it's different but the picture is this is this is what we want and we have to say this dog brings excellent because you know we talked before in the beginning you can train dogs you can build up exercise but where what the nature nature nature brings you cannot never train and bring and bring up uh bring up the natural dominant guarding because if it's not inside you cannot build you can build active so we say okay we have two type of dog dominant from nature and active okay dominant from 96 100 active can produce 96 you understand yeah we have a chance to be in the excellent so you have

a high quality dog but not dominant because they are not dominant is very difficult it's like diamant you know a high quality dog but with the right training good quality you are still there so do you find like this is something i always where i mean in the last few years or five ten years training is i mean progressively getting better and better but it becomes so artificial some some some some trainers still care about what you're talking about but there is a very very good high level trainers that they they really do such a good training that they mask the the true nature of the dog to win for a judge becomes very difficult to say in front of the crowd well this dog doesn't have that natural character you know what i'm saying because you like i will i will i will do a question for you you think the high quality dog with the dominant performance with the dominant behavior right it's easy for the trick training or it's easy to handling him in the way like a not dominant dog it's for me maybe i'm wrong i don't know but a real dominant dog you cannot take him for the training like 95 percent that people do with the normal dog right because he wants his way right right and uh and uh and uh and uh it's a balance between the handler and the dogs it's different like uh it's a 50 50 because you know dominant dog you have to respect him right right more in different way you respect also another one because you have to respect otherwise you have no relationship but you respect him in different way you you you must with the dominant dog you must accept you have to come to an agreement with negotiation there a little bit right okay okay this is this is what but this dog will if is you know it's uh the dog is self-confident really self-confident and he and who is working in the his nature he feel good when he feel good he will give you answer you know i think the biggest mistake in the past but this is also the part of the interpretation from the maybe commission judges people who who we are we are all the time involved it's also this part of aggression you know still people uh train dogs to to build up the aggression in the dog and this is this is wrong right that's exactly what i was trying to say yes exactly this is wrong you cannot you cannot uh uh the dog who is i will do a very clear uh picture prey drive or dominant dog or aggressive dog or natural aggressive dog prey drive if the dog is prey drive more you put the pressure inside pressure i'm on i want to say to have aggression more he will focus to the program because the dog always

focus to the the positive uh the positive uh tools to the positive things to the things where he feel good so if he feel good to play he will more go there and it's impossible to build up aggression natural aggression or dominant with the prey drive dogs it's better working work him what he is right and respect the limit of him and you know today with 92 92 92 276 you are you're doing okay for sure you are on the podium for sure for sure we must forget 282 284 85 it's difficult but to be there so respecting the good quality of the dog and training him in the right way you are on the top maybe one mistake plus one mistake minus you understand but this is this is the people must understand this so uh uh uh uh uh domin i think the dominant dogs they are three percent four percent maximum in the world three i don't know because some they come to the world cup some they stay at home for the wrong training you know right but the important is important is the dog must be hundred percent sure of himself what he have to do but the judges the judges play such an important role and not they are just like how you said and and that's my opinion and i know many judges will get upset at me and i'm gonna pay the price when i go and compete but this is the life you know exactly exactly but you know how you said there is a small percentage of dogs that are truly dominant that are naturally have the character and uh and i think with the judges is also the same i think not that many judges even even dare to look at and and try to separate the two dogs they are like okay well this dog is barking active and this dog is barking active and they either don't see much difference or they are afraid to to say what they think because uh it's some big name trainer or or something happens because if the judges are if we have more high quality judges that understand that the judges can dictate what kind of dogs we select and breed as breeders 100 percent i agree 100 percent but it's um it's um um um it's um i will tell it's a big uh challenge for all of us you know yes big challenge is because um you know in the in the in the our in the our dog world we have you know full respective or respective full handlers okay okay anyway they have a little bit bonus this is of course and this is normal of course you know we we must think uh on one points all together you know okay uh you are you are one of the top handlers you won the world world championship you know and then you have many colleagues on with your uh level uh on your level or with the

titles and uh it's up to us okay uh uh uh uh uh how we share the information and how to multiplicate you know not everyone is lucky like you to be on top or uh you are calling very true no not everyone from the judges they are not lucky to be on the top or to have the experience to feel the dog on the fields to to to to have a also the character personality to to say i'm sorry my friend but this is 85 right then yeah that's so it's it's a big responsibility and this is and this is what i i learned from for example uh uh uh uh from people who was behind me and say you will come one time on the point and you have the responsibility to share this level to other people so um you know um um i i just i want to people that they understand how easy can be the dog sport easy so forget the business seminars tra-la-la sunday happy seminars the people go happy at home and the problem is the people must understand and they must start to read the regulation in the new regulation will be written very easy what is primary target what they are secondary mistake and what we talk you know i i i also explain in the some seminars i can give you 96 when i uh give a price to your dog because he's dominant or somebody cannot feel this kind of dominant and they give you 96 because take half points here half points here half points here you understand yes the red line of the exercise is hold and bark sit in motion down with the recall retrieve the dumbbell and i think in the last 10 years we lose a little bit this red line i know the people they are still on the fields and the train basic position and still wrong right right because we focus with the secondary things we make so big circles about this basic position and tra-la-la position and tail up and tail down okay the dog can be happy but if he's focused to tell maybe he's up or maybe he's down he's don't meet he's unhappy because if he must be focused the body must be focused and happy dog focus can be happy but focus correct it's a good question you know and if if if if you train dogs four years and you come to the high competition somebody will tell you ah you are the dog that you are the tail of your dog is wrong this is secondary stupid yeah it has become a it has become a a thing now like it's really like i know this is i know high level trainers that that are friends from all over the world and they're like they would have a very nice i mean very nice dog but naturally it doesn't carry the tail and they're afraid to to go on and keep training that dog because chances are that most judges would see that as a as a negative side of the dog

like i i really think that there is competitors and breeders that are selecting now for dogs that even when they're submissive and stressed their tail is naturally like this you know yes yes uh uh i think we in the now the commission is uh uh a few people in the on the tracking part a few people in the obedience and few people on the video and protection part and uh we make a clear uh clear uh uh guidelines yeah yeah guidelines we're working on this maybe one one year later better to come out but uh uh important is to make it clear information to the handlers because you know um the we work we must anyway work together we must respect together right otherwise we will not produce nothing i i i never feel the handler like my concurrence in the field you know or i will go there to kill him you know right because normally you have no sense but i will i will explain him what i see from and i will not make the difference between one and one because you know it's um i always start from the presser post you exactly know what you have in your hands i like it yes yes you exactly know yes you know it was you remember in check you was disappointed with 19 tracking with me i don't remember but i'm sure i was i'm sure i was i'm sure i was and you can't tell me say look yes take the video looking again no of course yeah of course but that's this is this is exactly the point like judges have to have the courage to but it's not only the courage they have to have the understanding and then have the courage because yeah you know there is many many judges that have the courage and they just like okay i i this is what it is and uh it's somehow it's a big problem with our sport uh um you know like i i always think of because you know after bulgaria i i went to belgium and then i got more into the belgian ring and what is still interesting in the belgian ring is that if you take a dog that was i don't know 1975 for example and he scored 370 points probably chances are that that dog with that same performance today will still score about the same because the program is kind of solid and you it doesn't fluctuate it doesn't change like in igp we we i don't know why but we always seem to have the the flavor of the day or the flavor of the year oh now now this is even you know and then everybody jumps on that and we start promoting this a little bit more more of something and but we lose by doing that in some ways you know you remember uh people lost a lot of time in the tracking how the dog is looking on the object

right right yes in our regulation it's very easy written down the dog must search intensive and must convincefully indicate the object that's it that's it yeah this is the red line so but people push make seminars lose time a lot of food spent for focus what yeah artificial empty place or what you understand yeah i understand yeah but but this is where i want to tell you something that i also think about when like looking back in in early 90s when we used to have let's take protection the what the routine was in the 90s you had to you call the dog out of the blind you put them on a down you go and search the helper there was something about searching the helper because the dog has to stay a little bit longer there and you get to see a little bit of that dog is he sleepy is he anxious is he what is he doing you know we we are missing that then we had the the different style of the courage test the helper would run away turn around and go and that also that also played in the dog and no matter how you trained it the dog had to switch from one to the other i i should turn one i think it was beautiful that attack of the blind when we had yeah but not like the the you know the show shepherds this is a joke now but when you do this exercise exercise right yeah you cannot train a dog to do it even even when they know they are like oh they get twitched and and as a judge you can the dog gets more exposed in the old rules no my my country is very small so i can i can i can follow a little bit uh uh develop of all this our uh dog world uh for now 20 years and um the the high level uh training always influence also to the low level clubs and the instructors and trainers okay and uh i can tell you seven eight nine ten years ago 10 9 8 7 just normal bh trial was a problem because the dogs was able to do only with some different tricks or so and i said to my people in my my organization say what is this sorry the word yeah yeah a little bit like a circus this is this is we give a certificate of bh and i'm i i cannot sign this because i'm not sure if the dog is able to do right and look i was i was i was last week judging a bh trial in slovenia because normally i don't do so many but some clubs i go like you know okay and i was driving there i say oh a long time i was not in this club but what was my reminder in the head all dogs was okay so i come to this club imagine

it was i don't know 10 dogs all 10 handles and 10 dogs was on the front of the clubhouse and the dogs was there lay down and the guy say okay prepare the fields they say to the dog down they go there prepare the fields dog was there there still there you're almost like i'm giving the bh now wait and i say okay then they put they say okay we will write the test we have still the test you know and some questions to for the writing test yeah of the bh the dogs was all out of the house waiting the handles to finish the test they come to the field they made all exercise all free healing healing with the leash free healing sit down bam bam bam all so this is the target we must go back our target must be the dog must be able to do every single exercise you say him sit sit where in the restaurant or in the street or in the field same you know seven years ago the dog is no position if no position if no this hands here this there this there okay i understand the handler must have a part of freedom to handling the dog it's not a robot but we cannot build the exercise or we cannot evaluate the exercise if the dog for example is guarding in expectation the dog or he's just sitting and waiting because of obedience yeah yeah yeah you understand it or look it's not so like was but when i was judging some obedience and i focused the handle he was afraid how move the body before say sit you imagine how much energy he spent for this the dog for this thing for this we have sit difficult understand our our our mission is to balance do two important things so price the normal weight training normal behavior city sit sit and cancel or put out frozen brain you know without conflict okay right without frozen because wrong decision for training frozen the brain so the first signal the dog received like sit it's frozen and then they frozen and have the reaction so this is stop and then slowly this is frozen and they're frozen and this is we must say this is satisfactory because you use over limits oh you you go over the limits of the dog or you go over yeah yeah yeah the dog it's not uh like i know exactly what you're saying that it's the it's that separation how natural and comfortable the dog is the dog is to respond to the sit out of the healing because the the reaction is like this dog go poop poop frozen because stop something in the brain yeah they're frozen and sit yeah doesn't matter if it's like this or like this but it's right frozen there is three seconds to get frozen

hesitation there yeah yeah hesitation but in the brain is i always say for to be no frozen makes sense yeah yeah yeah but that's the so this is two important thing to explain to the people and say this so today we have if you look ten dogs nine push to the handler during the healing yeah and they are a little bit not yeah straight but they are like this yeah and one is right in the normal trial this nine they are right and this is one is wrong because the that's the you you you kind of get you are not you if you are if you are right you are not normal you understand so this is the same you have a lot 10 labrador in the ring of the show nine with the head like this one with the normal labrador standard this is not normal this is not good this is not right you understand this is we must be we must take care about this don't go and lose the sense what is right and what is normal yeah because we are oversizing everyone yeah i mean it's also we talk we always talk about the pressure pressure pressure this is oversizing oversizing over over over or the decision you know it's a it's about the motivation and the discipline right our dog must our okay if you want to get 100 points the dog must do it yes he must sit he want to sit or not it's different but anyway he must sit it's up to you how you build if he must he if he like to must to sit you understand yeah it's up to you so but if the if you if the dog think oh maybe yes or maybe not you cannot get 100 or 99 or 95 or 96 it doesn't matter and the second thing is respecting the limit of the dog if the dog is not in the quality able to do 96 work him what he's able our biggest problem is because we lose the sense to respect the limit of the dog 100 true it's like oh i want my dog to sit like your dog well can you run like me no no no no we call now balabano and balabano will show to everyone to they will sit in the same thing of course right he will show how he trained his dog but exactly i'm not afraid to explain my experience i can i'm not afraid to explain my tricks i am not afraid because it's up to you if you are able to get this understand masuda teach me what it was very interesting seminar one time you know masuda come and say across the hands this is your life 40 years put on the other side i say this is your new decision this is automatically this you must think you do this 40 years you cannot change tomorrow in this way you need a long time so it's same with the dog when something deep inside you know it's difficult to say i will change you can rebuild a new one of course but what is deep deep deep and this

is with the people with the trainers with the judges education new one new one new one new people new education more more ever had strasser one time said to me i say where will when will be my time you are too young okay but don't wait i will be too old right this is we have to share our information to new new people because already new people are under the influence of the social of media oh yeah they have already this idea you know sometimes in italy they ask me what is new this year nothing same like last year but that's exactly what i was saying about how igp always like i think it's like i think it's like one of these sports if not the only one that there is always this new flavor and and now oh that's everybody this new flavor builds people on the social this new flavor yeah the people on the field tricks seminars a real a real a real substance the real you understand it's only one you exactly know what you have in the hands but judges judges are under pressure because of that and and especially when the judge doesn't either understand or doesn't have the confidence to judge they affect it it's like this look i go to the field okay i you know in little care i will tell you this experience i was judging one belga belgian guy and i will uh i took the protection out of control in the side transport no big transport i say stop and one guy from the tribune communist directly i say okay no problem you know it's uh but this i want to tell you it's you know on the tribune you have one thousand people who look you maybe three thousand on the on the working dog video you understand yes and it's a challenge it's a challenge it's a challenge it's a big challenge come i'm i i'm here and i see so it's challenge you know maybe in in in in for this i tell you told you before not too old because when i will be too old and the brain will not work like this it's it's time to say stop right because we must respect each other i must respect the handler and the doctor the world who which was behind all this uh behind this competition you know so i must respect the public the people there but the people must also respect the the limit of the dogs they must respect the regulation they must respect the decision of the judge this is also the part of and we must respect each other and this is this is the way we can improve and show yeah i think there is a there is a this kind of disconnect somehow i i always wish that whenever there is a a big meeting of judges and and you know you you guys are looking at things and you're making decisions somehow by the time they come to the competitors

i mean first of all most competitors don't even care they just they're just training because that i see this one and it's looking good so i do the same and they expect that they will make the points because they don't understand what the rules asking for right and right but somehow if there is more education on the competitors instead of just reading the rule book the rule book because just like how judges they also read the rule book but they get to have the judges camp and meeting and discuss i think that's missing on the competitor side that's where we have to start to work together more you know i can i can agree but look utility doco mission every year uh out of covet because before covet was in austria and now it was in napoli yeah every year fix this seminar and i think it's good to come to join the live there because otherwise uh from video it's a little bit different and uh this this year we opened very very clearly the book you know not just blah blah blah and uh after three days uh after two three days of seminar was uh very direct information to the judges who was there to share the judges and we do in slovenia very easy so we come from napoli we organize the seminar for judges immediately after this for the trainers and immediately after this for the handlers yeah so all levels get the very clear information so when you know i'm judged in this way and i give you the information i will judge you in this way so no discussion correct correct correct but some countries have they're better organized and there are other countries that let's say maybe maybe it's a good idea we will uh we will do something also for the handles yeah utility do commission is not commissioned only for judges right we can it's a good idea we will uh we will talk about this why not why not i think it will be very very good because again that kind of collaboration puts us all together having the understanding and let's say i'm sure not everybody will that competes will want to know our our sorry interrupt you our target is the handler must exactly know when the he buy the puppy in which way we'll follow the training right this is not the tree the philosophy the philosophy must be one philosophy of the dog sport is like religion we cannot change from today to tomorrow or after four years because because we destroyed the generation of the dog we must have one religion you remember the the the german shepherd club the german shepherd philosophy was one religion

we follow this religion we have to follow this religion this is my meaning uh thinking and we have to push this so you know you decide the dog sport religion you exactly know right active dominant intensive convincingly path finito so how you develop this it's up to you because the handlers are genius the judges never develop the training the the trainers develop the training right we just ask what we want so we have to respect the trainers but we have to the trainers must respect the the limit of the dog yeah they cannot go over yeah this is but this is when like if uh you know that's where the the disconnect is also when like you as a churches you know what you're gonna look for but then there is somebody out in the world that is giving seminars and he's teaching everybody that new flavor that yeah and and and it has no and and many people that want to do very good they put so much time so much time yeah and they go to these seminars and they're learning something but if they had access to what judges will be looking at then they can say oh you know what what you're teaching doesn't make sense i'm wasting my time here i think there is something to be improved somehow there good idea we will we will uh i will uh i will uh i will uh open the discussion also and i also do you guys like when you do the commission like the meetings and everything i know every once in a while this comes in some conversation but having having um also some competitors that can either give input or or get consulted like hey what do you because it's it's everybody's sport and it's like hey what do you think about this and maybe like i had these ideas like having let's say this year 10 high level competitors that also somehow have at least uh uh uh opportunity to to express some ideas and then you say well that's very bad idea but maybe there is one good one and then the next year we take another 10 competitors so it's not like always the same people because when you think about it i mean there is uh uh uh like i'm just thinking of ways to collaborate so we can be this year was uh judge seminar and there was a lot of young judges who are also good handlers uh-huh yeah uh and uh who made also results in the past and uh it's okay it's okay um this is uh of course i'm sure this is the way to go which we can go together and to develop better better things for for the for the program or for everything um

um but uh it's um it's not easy uh it's uh it's it's it's important to understand um we we i don't say i don't i want to say to to split or to divide the two words handlers and judges no right but but it's um it's up it's up to us how i told you before to build the red line this red line we can call him the dog sport or the dog word religion or i don't know yeah yeah yeah understand and to say okay this is you understand so we have to respect both to make more clear so uh uh uh i told you before we cannot um we cannot uh uh share information to the handlers in the wrong way and they don't know exactly what will happen on the world championship you know or on the exams you know so it's um it's uh it's um it's a part of the philosophy of the of the sport and i think we are on the on the on the good way because we we we we we touched the very bad moment last years and i see i saw in many many uh uh countries i was judging the qualification is going is going a little bit better it's important to accept sometimes also 85 if you don't accept it's difficult to enjoy them 96 you know how how do you feel about the one church instead of two judges at the same time or how fmbb has four judges and a supervisor so that makes five judges and the same time on the field what do you think about that i will tell you my my concern with that like from all the times that i see it it almost becomes um some sort of competition between the judges who is more precise who is more harder instead of focusing more on on the quality of the training and the quality of the dog they start to be like like the performance becomes about am i better church than you am i gonna see more and give less points than you like that's how i start to feel lately okay fmb is another organization right judge of the fti right so i respect our regulation this is very important to make clear in the beginning um the igp competition is not more hobby okay so when you go to when you when you take the decision to go there you must be 100 sure how able you are to do it it's very easy to speak behind the computer right but it's very difficult to take the microphone on the stadium and what i saw in the last years the people uh have no courage to give points because we is coming on the on the uh situation where the people

are afraid to give points sometimes not always sometimes right and um this is this is uh what we have to take care but to give points it's normal because they are afraid because they're we are we're coming out from one period where the secondary mistakes was big mistake you understand so it's under the influence of the people so ah look this look this this this this this so we have to refresh the brain of of the judges refresh the idea of the handle and say primary is uh how the dog sit how the dog is focus and secondary is secondary things where you can you know uh sometimes people lose 20 30 45 50 percent for for uh for details who are not not critical yeah yeah not critically understand yeah so this is a little bit um uh but this is normal and i i my feeling was when i judge with two judges was okay was okay when i when i when i'm when my partner was uh similar level correct when and i'm then is okay but anyway anyway it's out of the dog sport out of the dog sport it's normal when they are two if they are too dominant um if the one is dominant on the reticive the dominant is handling but it is he is following understand but there is that fight who who's gonna be more dominant yeah and when you go to more dominant then you go with the less points not with the high points right right but okay it's a decision of the organization it's okay they yeah for sure so you think the direction that the sport is going now you're optimistic that that we will for me it's most important thing to have a position in the world not me our igp sport yeah position yeah what are we what i mean what i mean what i mean with the position our position must be taking care about the training taking care about the the quality breathing the quality breathing the quality breathing brings security to the citizens to the country to the service because from our selection the dogs go police military searching for the explosive drugs because all these service need stable self-confident dogs yes you understand yes and if you understand this we can come also to the court and say this is our position right to deal our sport will be afraid to say this is our position the people will the another people or the other uh personality will always be afraid to do this or kick us because you took the dog for the years or do you say ah so i don't know we are talking about maybe the dog feel good or bad i don't know how you understand

yeah yeah so it's it's it's it's we have to found our position and our position must be fair play understand the limit of the dog respect the limit of the dog train him in the way in the natural way come on if the dog have nothing natural insight to do okay stay on the couch and sleep right if you have special things inside like the hungarian dog natural pop okay follow him or if somebody train in the way to see wow how you train this yeah i train this way but for this way i need the dog this way okay understand this is this is our target not tell up or down there is a responsibility of the like what we do as judges as competitors as breeders like we we're trying to maintain this type of dogs that a police will need the military will need uh um because they cannot they no matter you know they have their little breeding programs but they cannot have enough it's they don't they don't they don't they don't have enough and it's another another another another situation ivan you are a breeder and you train your females right and you compete with your dogs right okay so they already understand you are already understand how the dog work under not the physical or mental pressure but under the pressure from you because you must do it you must go there you must compete there the the somebody give you evaluation you have to go come to the starting point this is one part of from your impression you know i i i don't know how you feel when i i don't believe you feel free and easy when you you come to the starting point you are under the pressure of course you like a hindland of course and and this this pressure you have to share you know i when i was competing first time i say come on my dog sit please sit when i say sit just sit you know yeah this is pressure this is pressure this was beginning i'd hold in 2004 i said doc sit just sit when i say sit sit you will sit i was i was talking with him like you know somebody look me and say you're crazy but this is pressure so when the dog is working under the pressure this kind of pressure this is same in the military you know or the police nobody will go there to take the whiskey they just go to make a job and he's under the pressure and working under the pressure it's not pressure when you kick somebody but pressure you know it's a responsibility to do responsibility when you're working under the responsibility it's a different performance yes i just it's the same thing like if you go to school people say ah you have a female yeah it's a super female youtube show me show me the responsibility but this is

this is this is where i think right now it's a little bit of a crossroad because of looking about that happy dog that it's almost not just happy but it's almost like you know that if you do one more healing maybe it's not gonna happen but it looks very happy our last product in the in the in the dog world is in the in the in the igp is the garden can expectation is the same like you told before for obedience you know yeah it's uh it's um um it's a it's a it's a behavior when i always say if this helper go seriously to this dog what will happen right or on the long attack if you put the machine who go always the same way how many days stay on the sleeve you understand oh i do i do i'll give you an example of this and this is like a very interesting situation because and you know especially like some of the the european countries there is places that breed and train dogs to sell to the armies around the world and they they train them very skillfully to act aggressive with the gun to search for a ball to these things that typically when the buyers come they will test and eventually they are so good that when somebody goes to buy a dog they have to become now even more creative to think how they can strip down everything so they can see the real dog but this is the same i i do this for uh for my job you know and uh and uh and uh this is same in the igp the handles they produce so many tricks and so many things and it's up to me to evaluate if is this really or not i i i will never go to touch this discussion and i will never go say you know i suppose your dog is right because i have to i have to evaluate what i see yeah not what i think yeah i will never do this because it's incorrect yeah but i evaluate the reaction the reaction of the dog on the helper the reaction on the field and the reaction on the tracking so i want to see the reaction this is the most important thing the reaction how do how do the rules how how does the rule changes i i'm sure that's an interesting one for everybody igp3 not so important things no i'm not talking about like what is changing but how do generally how how somebody comes with an idea well let's make the seat instead of 10 points five points like how how does this kind of ideas come to be discussed at the commission or or what do you think about the points or i don't understand you i don't know i mean think of let's let me give you an example of protection how how many different ways we had so far about the dog making a bark and hold in the blind and you call him to you then you

had to say the here first then there was the time where you had to walk to the dog and heal him back together and you know there is all these variations and how does this ideas come in place who who like who all of a sudden says you know what let's do this instead of what we have right now you know what i'm saying yeah but i will go generally uh because uh generally not only the commission of generally is working always like this you know it's um i just think this is a big mystery for most competitors like we always wonder how it happens okay it's uh i will just go to the very simple example you know uh the position of the body when in the free healing when the handles walk with the arm open this is very easy and simple example okay um the dogs most of the dogs was too big and they focus under the uh shoulder blah blah blah so it's um it's uh it's a it's a the picture for the people who develop the program it it's very easy you know it's very easy to to say okay we have this what produce this in different breeds produce a wrong body position wrong body position brings problems with the bags the problems with the problems with the oversized developed muscles you understand yeah or problems healthy problems so we have to say this picture out everything what is unnatural out and this is a little bit the way how to form so more the trainers develop artificial things right all the commission must control this you understand everything everything is danger for the dogs we have to say out so it's uh it's uh i think it's uh it's coming time uh and this commission is working good and i believe there are a lot of good handlers inside good judges yeah we will we will we will say okay this is a glass of wine and this is the wine or this is a glass of water and this is water not a little bit soda and a little bit wine right clear that's it and we have to uh uh uh collateral damage will be something like you know who was in the wrong way will be on the wrong way but we have to say now stop because you know when the when you are infected from the virus you must clean you know if you leave a little bit right it's problem comes back yeah yeah yeah yeah that's the and uh and i you know it's i i always compare with uh with the breeding you know every litter or every generation yeah and by the way we never said and i i should mention this because you're also a german shepherd breeder and that was just kind of we never even mentioned this which is important but yeah uh i will go to labrador you know if every generation live head more high uh more big the size more

large they will come over i i saw it i saw some dogs in the show this is labrador yeah how this dog can swim they cannot function no more you understand yeah so this is same you remember this it was a period when the the dogs have a head like this in the free healing right but mali they tried with german shepherd was not able to sit was not able to sit and this is this is something who is going over so i think the the most big challenge in the future will be to understand a natural aggression a natural reaction a natural behavior you understand right to say to say okay if we have 10 dogs and nine is pushing the challenge will be say these nine are wrong and this one is good to accept right this you understand right this you understand yeah all rest is steward not steward this one this one this is bullshit you understand to understand the way of the interpretation of the of the of the sport the red line what is the red line red line is producing or supporting the right training or supporting the right training and the right breathing the right way of training and the right way of breathing so you know how like i i mean i'm sure you you know this and i i i know a lot of competitors and trainers around the world that are very concerned that the sport is starting to change to where we will not be able to expose the character of the dogs anymore and we will start to have like we will start to have more dogs that will have a you know like you will have a dog that makes very nice obedience and then is very active in the barking and has a good bite but it doesn't have the inside and it becomes more more difficult to to separate those dogs and say no those dogs are in lower category this is a concern for i think for a lot of people that compete now that that's kind of where we are going with with with uh the igp to where it can become a it can start to we can start selecting weaker energetic dogs that if uh some plastic back flies on the field maybe they will actually react to it you know first of all we have to understand um and to accept the good you know what is good the good is normal dog who do all exercise in the normal good way so honestly if you go to touch the regulation and the behavior of the dog who are extremely too front too up too high too too too it's not more good honestly this is satisfactory right and when the people think to have the dog for excellent or for every for very good and the valuation come good and they are

disappointed and they search the the the reason of the unsuccess in the judges or in the valuation to tell we will have this kind of problem so it's i think the um one of the biggest challenge will be the in the future to explain what is good good so okay good is just normal one time superior quality of the dog and one time superior quality of the training is very good uh-huh but this is superior you know superior is something else yes he stands out yeah two times superior quality of the dog and two times superior quality of the training come to the excellent and this is and and um um i think uh in the future and maybe the resume of this our podcast is to put people together to start to keep doing together and to to to to believe in the religion together right i think we we i think there is to take the conclusion of the right of our talking and discussion yeah of the dog for you know my my fear right now is that the sport starts to become more obedience oriented than how it used to be obedience of course is obedience is important but but ultimately the dogs in our sport they have to show a quality in protection a true call quality also in the tricking that's right and that's right yeah right right but it be but don't you think that it's becoming more and more of a obedience sport and in the protection also it's becoming more of a tricks and games and and also in the protection there are tricks and games right right but um for this we have expectation guarding face okay i'm gonna say something totally out there in that you know of course it doesn't make sense but but it's more to just as an idea so we can put the focus back in in protection and tracking and and not to be all about obedience um to and again that's what i'm gonna say now it's kind of funny but just so you understand what i mean like like even with the points if we say obedience instead of being 100 points is 80 points max but protection is 120 points because it is important for us that part of the work you know of course not to change it like this but just to give you an idea that you have three disciplines right tracking the tracking is you know not uh we don't talk about um a green grass golf right right yeah it's selective okay you have a protection if you evaluate trust me if you run away the protection in the right way you make the difference right so you think you have enough and if you evaluate opinions in the right way

it's coming different so you think that we have at the moment how ITP is especially as we took the stick hit away we have enough opportunity to still expose the dog through nature yes because we must take care about this, it's not easy because for the moment the dog is still under the influence yes but I think with the right balance between education on on the education on the on the teaching and training dogs and education on the breedings I still believe I'm one of the old thinking our sport sport it's breeding and and training together right the people must understand how big responsibilities to say when you say this dog is excellent this is a bigger responsibility right because behind this behind this can be 20 40 liters immediately and can be something wrong or something you produce good we know we know this is my experience there was in the past some dog push yeah yeah yeah after this we produce nothing you understand when you when you have 100 liters in all over the world it produces 500 problems understand right no and that's the concern that's the fear that things can go that direction and really change so but if we go a little bit back we evaluate the natural reaction the natural behavior the natural solving solution we go back to the nature big to the nature how I have this idea that you know like I just like everybody we all have ideas and sometimes they're good sometimes they're bad but now that we we have the stick hit away it's difficult it makes it it makes it more difficult to evaluate right there is no question about that can it be evaluated for sure but is it more difficult yes how how is it even a possibility to change something in the way the protection routine is set up to where we can expose the dog for example you know that if you I mean you know very well because you train with military dogs and everything like allowing a dog to have more of a passive bite so it's not that the helper just puts the dog and just takes him on a big ride and it stops but slows it down a little bit or maybe keeps him on a still bite and then you see a dog that is here and it's like are you comfortable are you concerned is the training going to break you know giving that more time for the judge to and the helper to expose the dog like is that something that you guys think of or not because you know if you put a dog on a bike and they don't get much you know

we have one very easy conclusion also in the group and but this is maybe a little bit more my personal opinion and I always stay behind my personal opinion you know the people all want changes but nobody want change okay and I think it's not the group who is the group is not limited for the changes and the group always search the solution I think the stick out now will produce in one two years for sure a little bit different picture of course and we we already think how to evaluate different situations we already think what to introduce inside for the moment is it like this and we already have some different interpretation we already give this signal to this on the seminar in Napoli how to evaluate different reaction and normally the dock now to be in the excellent must be really good in the both part not only in the first and the second a little bit less because you know in the second part today like before it's more extremely to see the dock in the second part they are not physically able more to resist of the pressure physically you know they come empty empty means good or satisfactory when you touch to the good satisfactory going down you make the difference you know so it's for sure will develop but it's a joke but not joke in Yugoslavia our target when I was the helper how many dogs I would send away yeah there's still helpers like that today mostly we have this kind of problem to we don't have a pressure right on the protection work you know it's this is our we have a speed we have a nice picture we have a nice photo we have a nice suit we have a nice color but everyone is afraid to do the mistake when you are afraid to do the mistake you don't go to the limit yeah but but you like handler you have to train the dog to the limit close if you want to be top so everyone for the top must try to do better better to the limit not over the limit respect the limit but the dog has to have I mean the dog and the trainer they have to have a challenge but the challenge has to be something that the dog and the handler can accomplish because if it's too high it breaks down if it's too low it becomes you know I hate people when say you see for example this I would say I will use your name you see he made the mistake in obedience he tried to go to the limits between limits excellent and down it's very tight border you understand yeah and I respect people when they try to go to make the step over more to go a little bit up because if you

want to be sure you just go 5% before limits you make the step down you understand but if you want more more a little bit more you want to develop your risk is higher and so correct me if I don't get it right but there is a little bit more consideration in favor of a dog that is responsive and reliable and it's putting it's almost like the dog is putting stress on its own to do the right thing kind of like if I have to go and pass a test for some exam I mean if I care I would be stressed about it a little bit otherwise I would not get the test and of course and so like there is this like for in the whole IGP world community right now I don't think we are clear as competitors how much of that responsibility and stress is okay and where is that line to where we say well that dog is pressured and you're a not good trainer and you're going in that category or you're getting disqualified I don't think we understand where that line is and how to train but the science say the happy dog is the dog who is under the working progress when the dog has clear idea and he is under the working progress for him he's a happy dog so the happy dog is not the dog who is all the time on the couch and sleeping correct so if the dog likes to work and this is what he makes him happy just develop this that's good I'm sure a lot of people that are listening to us will this is not because Harry Arjone say or Ivan Balabano the people who study behavior of the dogs and the science say the happy dog is the dog who is all the time working right who have no ! time to spend for stupid things you understand because the dog likes to work because for him make him clear have a purpose in life even you know just like us like you have meaningful life all of us we must make step back thinking meaning training judging and to evaluate the nature quality the quality of the nature the nature quality of the dog both understand step back try to find and to make the courage to say this it's okay and this is not okay right not say yeah yeah but maybe yes or no this is wrong white black yeah this is where it's difficult for trainers preparing because they don't have and me included you know just not knowing where I will be if I don't make the dog and we know with good training you can make a dog have the tail up but here he's not feeling that way and everybody knows that okay

I will use this idea I promise to share and to understand and to put something together it's a good idea I have no problem of course but it's the conclusion it's together we can do better yes yes we have to like I think both I mean I was going to say both sides we are one side that's that's the thing like judges competitors breeders we are all in the same place we just need to look at it that way and like we love the sport all of us you know we are crazy not only we love we are also a little bit dependent well yeah there is some addiction there is some addiction for sure but we are afraid and we are hoping that you guys will protect our sport we will and I am sure that at any time you need any I don't know what kind of help you will need or what kind of collaboration but I know all the trainers will be very willing to contribute you know and I think this is important for all of us to somehow find ways I can tell you in the group we have a good different good fighting and discussion because we are people who all protect not only the ideas but because they take care about the future you understand and this is good I like this so I believe we can do something good that's what I was hoping to come out very good okay Harry thank you so much this was I think I really think this was a very good conversation for the whole IGP world to hear that you know we we're gonna have our sport and we're gonna go on and we're gonna have fun and you know it's we must protect and we must take care about our position right so we need we need some just as you said like some mission statement and stand behind it and educate and you know very good I'm super happy thank you for the you know like I know you you just go so many places judging and everything and I know it's hard to do this but I'm so happy that we had that conversation and you know thank you for the invitation we're gonna see you hopefully we make another like I really were thinking of something to where you know we invite back in the States and have some judges more judges education like for competitors you know yeah okay so must be regular education for every year right very important right this is this is it because in my country we do it this way because everything is more clear yeah it keeps trainers on track of what we want to accomplish and then any kind of silly training or okay so we have the silly training but we also have the you know the other mentality from

years and years ago to where it's like this dog and that dog is like this but he's real he's like he's not real he doesn't want to be here you know so there is these extremes but when we stay together and we talk to each other everybody knows where we want to be right so thank you so much and another very important thing what the group and the FCI always develop and take care and protect it's a it's a way to give the chance to everyone to win right and to be there and this is I think one of the best things also the working commission before with France Jansen and now with Robert they do so everyone has the same chance and this is very important yes even come from Slovenia Bulgaria USA Bangladesh doesn't matter I love it just yeah all right my friend thank you thank you so much I'm so happy you're welcome all right Harry take care my friend I Thank you.