198 WP-Tonic: 멤버십 가이즈의 마이크 모리슨

only projects we would take on after some time, because that's where our passion really was. I've always been hugely into online community. My first experiences online were in online forums, and news boards, and stuff like that. So that's always kind of run through what I did. And our agency ended up just doing those sorts of projects. We wouldn't take on any other work whatsoever. That's the stuff we loved. That's where we were getting the best results for the people we were working with. And, you know, that's where we're developing the strategies, and the marketing side of things as well as the tech side. So eventually, we knew we wanted to help more people than could hire us. So we started blogging, started podcasting, and then of course, we opened up our own membership. Now that's all we do. We don't do any coaching, any consultancy, any client work whatsoever. 100% of our focus is on serving our community inside our membership site. Now, that's brilliant. I think the specialization has really helped people associate you with membership sites in specific. Yeah. And, you know, we planted our flag. We're very much fans of literal branding. You don't call yourself the membership guys if that's not the be all and end all of everything that you do. And actually, that's helped, I think, accelerate what we were doing. We see so many people focus on a thing they maybe enjoy or are passionate about or have experience in. And then as soon as they achieve any form of success, they start moving to the middle. They start trying to go really broad and trying to serve everyone else. We kind of did it in reverse. We had a wide and diverse client range. You know, we work with e-commerce businesses. We work with multinationals. We worked with, you know, yoga teachers in the local area, all shapes and sizes. And so we went broad and then narrowed down. Too many people go in the other direction. And our focus on memberships is very much fueled just by how much we love it as a business model. And so I think that's been a large part of why we've been able to be successful with it in that we haven't wavered from that. If anything, we're just getting more and more laser focused on purely the membership and community side of things. No, I love it. Totally love it. Here's a question. You know, for people who are first starting a membership site, and maybe, you know, you counsel a lot of your clients with this too, but how do people decide what to build a membership around? What type of topic and what type of membership

site? It's got to start with where your knowledge, skills, experience, and expertise lie. We do see a lot of people kind of saying, what's the best niche to build a membership on? Like they're trying to pick a winning idea. But the thing with a membership, it's a marathon and not a sprint. You need to be creating content. You need to be interacting in a community on an ongoing basis. And so if you start membership around a topic that you don't actually have experience in, that you don't have passion for, that you, you know, your idea of the perfect kind of business isn't, or is something other than engulfing yourself in this subject, five, 10, 15 years down the line, then it's probably not going to go anywhere. You need to have that passion. If there's no passion, there's no point. What are you good at? What do you have experience with? What do you know that your audience don't? It's got to be something that, that, that excites you. Otherwise you're going to get bored very, very quickly. It also needs to be something that addresses a problem. So you need to build some form of a following and, you know, a few dozen people on Twitter doesn't count. You need to be getting email signups, starting free Facebook groups and getting your, your audience built up in there. And you need to figure out what keeps these guys up at night. What causes them problems? What's stopping them from getting to where they want to go? Where do they actually want to go? What problems do they have? And only by understanding those problems and those pain points, can you actually figure out what the solution is? So is it a major transformation? Is it an accumulation of, of, of knowledge or skills that your, your audience need? Is it learning one specific process? Is it hitting a specific milestone or an income level or something in their lives? How can you get people from where they are now to where they want to be? That's essentially where you want to be building your membership around. I love that you said, uh, there's so much to unpack in what you just said. There's about three questions that I had on my list that you just. Sorry, I have a habit of doing that by the way. I apologize. Oh no, but it's perfect because I can like unpack them a little by little here. And, and the first one is you touched on a little bit is, is what are people trying to achieve? So talk about that, you know, just a little bit more in depth, you know, why, why do people join membership site? You know, what are they trying to achieve? Like in your experience?

I mean, the, the reasons people will give for joining a membership and some of the surface level motivations people have for joining memberships, they vary. They vary from people wanting to learn specifically the thing you want to teach or, um, develop in the way that you're going to help them develop. Most people will join for that. They'll join for the results that you're, um, you're selling that you can help them achieve. Some people will join out of curiosity. Some people will join out of sheer misunderstanding. And some people will join because they're, they're your peers within a particular field and they're working with clients. And so they want to brush up on their own knowledge. You'll even get some people in your, in your audience, especially if you're putting out a lot of free content who will join just to show their appreciation for, for what you're putting out there. But the core reason people joined is they have a goal they want to hit, a problem they want to solve, an outcome they want to go through, or even just an interest they want to have indulged with other people. You know, regardless of what it says on your website, your Twitter profile, your business card, you're not a web designer. You're not a coach. You're not a personal trainer. You're a problem solver. Each and every one of us in business, we are the exact same thing. We are all in the business of solving problems. Some people problems are bigger than others. Some solutions are more life-changing and radical than others. Sometimes solving a problem is just somebody fancies a burger and you've got a burger, you can sell them. But we're all in the business of solving problems. And ultimately the reasons people join memberships is they want a solution to whatever it is they're struggling with, whatever it is they're passionate about and they want to progress with, and they trust you to help them get to where they want to go. Love it. And that's true. Every business is built on solving a problem for someone else. Something else that you touched on just a second ago too is, you know, you're talking about if you have like 12 followers on Twitter, it's going to be really hard to have a successful membership launch. And you know, how far out are you trying to both build your authority around a certain subject and build an audience? And what are some means that you might use to build that audience? Yeah, it's, you know, I mean, you can launch a membership without a following, but it's going to be like pushing water up a hill. It's going to be so much harder if you don't already

have that audience there for a multitude of reasons. The obvious one being that you have nobody to tell, you have no one to promote to if you don't have people on your email list or connections on Facebook who are your target market or people in a Facebook group and stuff like that. So it's a whole, you know, if a tree falls in the wood and no one's there, did it ever fall? If a membership site launches to zero audience, has it really launched? So there's that element. But also if you haven't built up an audience and built up a following, then you probably don't really have a 100% handle on how to serve the people you want to serve. And if you haven't been able to compel people to subscribe to your email list, you're going to have a hard time compelling them to give you some money and join a paid membership site. So technically, you know, you can whip up a basic membership site in a day. You can forego the creation of any content by deciding to do it all live. So you need nothing other than just a schedule of when you're going to do your live sessions. You can get up and running with a membership a lot quicker than you might think. But if you don't have an audience we're following, it's going to be a very, very slow burn. And you're never really going to get that critical mass inside your membership. If you have, for example, a community, you're not going to get enough people in quick enough for that community to take light and for that momentum to build. So trying to attract your audience before you try to, you know, sell them something. So there are ways to accelerate this. You can use what typically like event based marketing, we like to call it. So things like running a challenge where people opt in and perhaps over a series of 30 days, you help them get from A to B via a series of emails, via a series of live, 15 minute live calls, Facebook live sessions in a Facebook group where you turn that into an event. You have a limited enrollment period and then throughout the month of August, you're going to go through this challenge. And so you've got that timely element, you've got the urgency that you can use to get a greater amount of signups than you would if you were just hoping traffic will trickle to a blog and opt into a list. You do things like web summits. Again, you turn that into an event, you get a lot of attention, you get a lot of eyeballs, and you get a lot of people opting into your email list. And these sorts of things are great jumping off points. So you can use these to build your audience quite quickly and get them on the list.

And at the end, you've got a jumping off point to promote a membership site. Free Facebook groups work well too. We're very much like they're quite a big part of our strategy. In fact, as soon as we knew, as soon as we decided that the long game, we were actually going to move away from client stuff and focus just on building our own membership site, we set up a Facebook group. So we had somewhere to direct people if they emailed us or connected us on social media said, I've got a question about memberships. We wouldn't hit reply and answer it. We'd say, great question. Join our free Facebook group, pop the question in there, and you'll get an answer from us as well as all the other people in the group. So a Facebook group is an easy way of kind of giving your audience somewhere to go until you're ready to actually, you know, take a membership to them and trying to get them to engage with you that little bit more through your paid community. And yeah, and content marketing is the other side of things like blogging, podcasting, you know, YouTube videos, if that's your thing, Facebook lives now, especially like you need to be doing that sort of stuff to establish the credibility that's going to get people to trust you to get results for them and to, you know, serve them within your community. Two things that really jump out at me from what you're saying and something that I've observed in the wild as well is that the most successful membership sites seem to have two elements that are always there. And one is community and the other is engagement. And I've really formed some strong opinions that it's really difficult to have a wildly successful membership site without community. And something that you were saying, you know, too, before you're launching like a full site, you can develop that in something like a Facebook group. How important do you feel community is to the success of a membership site? I think it's a huge, huge part. You know, what we observe more than anything else in terms of commonality across industries, across different membership models is that members will come for your content, but they'll stay for your community. Your community gives your membership that sticky factor. So you will get people who will continue on in your community because of the relationships they form, the accountability. It gives them just the entertainment value that comes from, from, you know, getting to know other members and striking up rapport with them. People will stay in your community for that stuff long beyond when they're finished

consuming all of your courses, long beyond the point at which they decide to stop coming along to your live calls and stuff like that. Community is what keeps people subscribed for years. And yeah, I think even more so these days, like even going back 10, 15 years, I think before social media really sort of exploded, the internet was, was very much one way for everyone other than, you know, the, the slightly geekier guys who were already hanging out in forums and hanging out on IRC channels and stuff like that. Like, but everything other than, than us, like the internet was one way. Now, I mean, it's, it's just a completely different animal. And so I think, you know, not just for meeting expectations, because I think people expect there to be some sort of a social experience attached to pretty much anything they do online. So at a very, at the very least having that just to meet expectations is valuable. But in terms of aiding the, the educational process, if your membership is, is one based around eLearning, for aiding development and progression, community and having a community like a forum or a paid Facebook group, it gives you tools as the membership site owner to give people that one-on-one attention and to serve people one to many without it actually having too big an impact on your own time. And yeah, I think if you, if you have a paid membership, then in, with the exception of maybe like, if you have a one where it's purely like resource based, so it's a membership where you gain, you join to gain access to like a library with a thousand template files or worksheets or checklists or something like that. Like, unless you are exceptionally detached for a reason from what your membership provides in terms of content deliverables, like you should always have a community. I think it's, it's so, so essential for long-term success for memberships. Couldn't agree more. You know, what are some other components of a successful membership site that we haven't touched on yet? There's a few. First of all, you need to get your head right. You need to get the mindset right. If you are going into this because you have visions of kicking back on a beat somewhere in a hammock, sipping Mai Tais as the money rolls in, you need to bark up another tree because that's just not how it works. There's like passive income is very rarely passive. Nobody who read the four hour work week only works four hours a week, not even the guy who wrote it. So if you're looking for a silver bullet or a golden goose, yeah, it's not happening. But if you enjoy the prospect and you

get excited by the prospect of your business being based around you teaching on supporting people, building a community around a topic you're passionate about, if the thought that, you know, for anyone who's watching this and I know there's a lot of people in the WordPress community, like if you're an embattled web developer who's so tired of your skill set only being used to an absolute fraction of its potential because you don't really, when you're working with clients, you don't, you very rarely have a real platform for really flexing your muscles and doing all that you can do. If you're like that within whatever field, whether it's design or coaching or what have you, if the prospect of actually creating something that, you know, you can flex your muscles and you can tap into all the different things in your toolbox because you're creating content, you're setting the terms and the rules. If all that sort of appeals to you and you aren't scared of actually working for it and you recognize a membership's a marathon not a sprint, then you're probably a little bit better suited to membership. So that's the first thing, you need to get your membership mindset right. You also need to recognize one of the key differences between a membership site and something like an online course or, you know, a piece of software or something is the sale is just the beginning. You know, we also have a one-off course, once you've made that sale, your job's done, you've got the money and you move on to try and get the next sale. With a membership site, that sale is just the beginning. It's the starting pistol rather than the end of the line. You need to get that sale, you need to keep that sale month after month, year after year. So retention is absolutely crucial. You can't build and scale a membership site off single payments from people who join and then leave before the end of the first month. You need to market beyond the sale and give people a reason to stick around within your membership. That means showing up and serving. That means delivering ongoing value, whether it's through the content, whether it's through the interactions in your community, the support and accountability that you provide to your members. You need to deliver that ongoing value. You want people to pay you on an ongoing basis, you have to deliver on an ongoing basis. That means showing up in your community, it means answering posts, it means enjoying engaging and interacting with your members. That's something you need to do long term if you want your members to stick around.

So member retention and the whole member experience is crucial for long term success because you want to build and build and build and build and build. When we say a membership site is not a sprint, it's very much true. But if you stick it out and if you're in it for the long haul, that recurring revenue where you're not starting from zero every month, you've got 100 members and you get 20 more. Now you've got 120, then you get, you know, and it goes up and up and up. It gives you a stability and a scalability and a predictability and a reliability and a whatever else ability that you just don't get the most of the types of business models. So yeah, mindset and a focus on member experience and retention. Absolutely key. Yeah, that's really super valuable. With that, we're going to go to our midpoint break. And when we come back, we're going to be talking more with Mike Morrison of the Membership Guys. See you in just a second. We're coming back from our break. We're talking with Mike Morrison of the Podcast Guy. Not the Podcast Guy. It's the Membership Guys. Hey, that's another business idea. There we go. That's a great business idea. When we were talking about successful components of a successful site, I'm sorry, I can't talk today. But, you know, one of the things we were talking about is community. And also we were talking about content. And one thing that you said is that if you're expecting to just be kicking back on a beach and drinking Mai Tais and watching the money roll in, that's not going to happen. And one of the things that people really join a membership site for is some form of content. And so when people are first putting together the idea for a membership site, what type of content planning do they need to go through? And what types of content should they have? Like some free, some teaser content and then some paid content. How do you determine those things? Yeah, there's a couple of elements there. I think in terms of what you create your content about first and foremost, this comes back to your role as a problem solver. So when we talk about having things like Facebook groups, when we talk about the importance of getting people on your email list, it's not just so you have a huge amount of people to sell to. It's so that these guys can tell you what they want you to create. You know, if you're reaching out to your audience and you're asking them, what's the number one problem that you're dealing with right now? When they come back and tell you, that's your bank of ideas for content to create.

Because if you ask 100 people and 20 of them come back and say, well, you know what, my main problem is this, then that becomes the first piece of content you create in your membership. Your actual deliverables and sorry to go to that, that should be a process you just do on an ongoing basis throughout your membership. Like these guys do the work for you. They tell you what they want. Once you actually get them into a paid membership, that sort of feedback, like you get more and more of it. So you should never run out of ideas for actual content to create. A good rule of thumb for determining what do you sell and what do you give away? Typically, you can give away the what, give away the why and sell the how. So your blog posts, your podcast, your webinars, I'll be telling people what they should be doing, why they should be doing it, but what you want to then charge people for and what you want to provide your membership is the actual how to. So the walkthroughs of setting up a process or using a particular tool, the real deep dive nitty gritty of a strategy that you've blogged about or a podcast about. You know, that dividing line, you can play about with it, you can blur the lines. So, you know, if you create a course that has 20 lessons, you could take two or three of those and put them out as free content as kind of teasers. Playing around with that line between free and paid is, is, you know, something that you can start getting creative with just as part of your content marketing. There's some memberships like CreativeLive, for example, everything in their membership site that you pay for at some point is available for free. It's just only available for a very limited window of time outside that window. You need to jump in, you need to join the membership in order to get access. So, you know, content is content, there's content, you can decide where that line is, you can play about with it, test different things and, you know, see what works for you. In terms of the type of content, again, it kind of comes down to what's going to help people get the results they want, get where they want to go, but also, what are you comfortable creating on an ongoing basis? So, if you hate anything that involves face to camera, then don't create a membership site where you're doing a lot of face to camera videos. If you live somewhere that is extremely noisy and you've got airplanes flying overhead, don't create a membership that's heavy on content where you have to sit at home and record it and audio.

So, it's got to fit you, it's got to be content that isn't too much with chore or take too long, it's too difficult for you to create. So, you have to find that balance between your needs as a membership site owner and your audience's needs in terms of what it's going to take together where they want to go. So, again, you know, what we tend to find is most memberships, their content is structured or segmented around one of three things. It's either structured according to an outcome. So, everyone joining the site is joining because they want to get to the same place. So, it may be build your first website. So, you may have a membership site that is aimed around taking non-techy people and teach them how to build and competently use a WordPress site. So, the process of that might be fairly linear. So, you could break that down into five or six stages and that then becomes the roadmap, the pathway. Your content then becomes about figuring out what someone at step one looks like, what they need to learn to get to step two and then creating the material around that. That could be, it could be a mini course, it could be a long course, it could be a series of one-off tutorials that are really specific about using specific features. Then, what gets people from two to three, what gets people three to four and so on. So, that's one way of structuring around an outcome. Second way of structuring your strategy based on competency. So, you see there's a lot in music based membership sites where their competencies are perhaps beginner, intermediate and advanced. It's not a linear progression where, you know, if you're a beginner you can watch 10 lessons and all of a sudden you're an immediate. Watch another 10 and then you're an advanced piano player. So, with that, that just becomes about, again, creating content for those different segments. That's going to help people develop their skills and learn specific, you know, techniques and so on. The third way is structuring your content according to topics. So, this is where you have a huge subject like web development. Like massive, all-encompassing, frequently argued about its definition and its scope of what a web developer is or what they learn. Million and one different subsets, million and one self-contained little topics and your content then is about, you know, someone coming in and say, I want to learn this thing, I also want to learn this thing, I want to learn this thing. And that's perhaps more tutorial based. So, you need to figure out the structure and the strategy behind your content.

You need to find formats and mediums for that content, that for you and for your member. And then the last step I would say is, is having a plan for publishing, creating that content that makes it so, you know, overwhelming members by just throwing loads and loads of stuff at them. So, we typically recommend having no more than four different types, distinct types of content in your membership. We call them content streams. So, you would choose four types of deliverables. So, you might decide you're going to offer mini courses. So, like two hour long courses on a quite specific topic. Checklists. So, literally just download this and walk through a process. Live Q&A calls and perks or offers. So, you know, you're going out there and you're hustling 20% discount here, three, six months here, giving you, you know, exclusive discounts and perks that you can give to people who are members of your site. So, those could be your four deliverables. And that's a good mix of different type of medium, different type of benefits to different people. You then release one piece of content every week. And rather than just putting out calls, calls, calls, then maybe a perk and then a couple of live calls. You cycle through those four content streams. So, week one, it's a mini course. Week two, it's a checklist. Week three, you do your live call. Week four, you add a new perk. Week five, you cycle back around and it's a course. Next week, it's a checklist. So, you get this cycle. So, there's always something fresh and there's always something new coming out, but it's not bombarding people with the same thing over and over again. As a result, you avoid them getting overwhelmed by feeling like they're drinking from a fire hose and there's just too much content. You also make them more manageable for you because things like checklists, things like live calls, things like perks, they're nowhere near as taxing in terms of creating content as doing courses are. So, it kind of lightens your load a bit. And then if you apply the segments we talked about, so, you know, if you determined your audience consists of people of beginner and immediate advance, you can apply that to those content streams. So, instead of just being mini-course, then a checklist, then a live, and then a perk, week one is a mini-course for your beginners. Week two is a checklist for your intermediate guys. Week three, you've got a more advanced Q&A. Week four, you've got a perk that everyone could benefit from. Week five, it's another mini-course, but this one's for

your intermediate guys. Then the week after, your checklist is for advanced. So, you're mixing things up both in terms of the type of content you're delivering and the segment of your audience that that content is relevant for. And it's enabling you to deliver that ongoing value in a manageable way. And, you know, in a way that's going to keep people subscribed. That's a lot. I'm sorry. I'm talking about avoiding overwhelm when I'm just going. I apologize for that. That's what people have the rewind button for. If I can listen to it again. There is a ton of valuable information there. Last question that I want to ask you in this episode is about onboarding. And I think, you know, that might be a thing that a lot of people struggle with, setting that up. And maybe it's an afterthought sometimes, but it's is so critical. Talk to just if you can just a little bit about the importance of onboarding and how it contributes to the long term retention of a membership customer. Yeah, for sure. I mean retention starts day one minute one when someone joins your site. The second that someone has completed registration, completed purchase, the clock is ticking. You need to give them a reason to stick around. You need to make sure that their member experience is one that sets them up to be more likely to be a long term member. So you need to make sure that you're getting them off to the right start. You're getting them into the habits. You're getting them, you know, into the habit of logging into your website, of consuming your content. You're making sure that there's no kind of buyer's remorse or, you know, the typical things you join, sort of join a membership or you buy something. You do get that little pang of kind of, was that the right call? So you need to alleviate that right away. So first thing somebody sees should be some form of welcome from you. Whether that's a nice message with a friendly picture or more typically a welcome video. Letting them know that you're grateful they've joined, you're excited they're part of your community. So it's going to be making them feel good about their buying decision and getting them excited for more. From there, you want to be essentially giving them the first four or five steps to get them off to a start with your site. So think about ideally what every member of your site should do as a minimum in order to get off to the right start. So this could be things like having them set up a profile in your community software, getting them to post an introduction.

It might be having them complete a mini quiz that helps you to identify their needs so you can then give them, you know, tailored content recommendations or a starting point so that again, there's more chance that they'll jump in. They'll be on the right track. They'll get a little bit of a result and they'll want to stick around to progress from there. Then throughout their first days, weeks of their membership, you want to be communicating with them regularly, checking in, making sure that they're finding their way around, giving them an opportunity to let you know if there's a problem they're having, if they're finding your navigation confusing, if there's a technical issue that they're having. You know, it's amazing how many people, you know, can end up leaving a membership because they just couldn't figure out how to find one of the things that they were most excited by on their, on your sales page. And if you haven't started that dialogue and made it easy for them to say, well, you know what, really having a problem finding this one thing. Quite often they'll just leave rather than let you know, especially if, if they're a little bit more passive and they're not inclined to kick up a fuss, they'll leave and you could have salvaged that in the 30 second email. So keep that dialogue going, you know, highlight some of the best features of your, your membership that maybe you haven't mentioned as much on your sales page, point them in the direction of some of your best content, maybe even deliver a little bit of unexpected value, like a freebie or a gift or a personalized welcome video or something like that. And then when you get close to the end of either their trial period, if you're offering trials or end of their first month. So whenever the first billing cycle is coming to an end, then it needs to become more into your onboarding needs to become more about signposting the future value in your membership. Let them know what courses, what content, what features are coming up in the future. So when they're considering whether to continue to be a member, not only, they're not just basing that on what they've had during their first month, they're basing that on what they would miss out on if they decide not to stick around. And that makes it a much harder decision. And it creates that I hate the term because it sounds nasty, but creates a pain of disconnect, whereby it's like, okay, well, I watched this course, this course was cool. I went the live and the live was good. Yeah, it's been all right. I'm just going to cancel. If you you put this stuff just out of reach,

and you'll let you know, you know, you just need to stick around. And you're going to get this awesome thing and this awesome thing. And that's something you want to carry through throughout your membership, always be signposting that feature value. So any decision about whether to leave, whether to stay is has to include the prospect of not being there for these cool awesome things that are coming up in the future. I love how you put that it's it's the promise of they never want to leave because there's always this promise of more great stuff that's coming. And you if you always deliver, then they have no reason to leave. Exactly, exactly. And when we talk about giving them out those four or five things, you know, you definitely need to include something that gets them using your community, because that is what's going to hook them in. You want to make it as easy as possible for people again, your community, having a separate introductions section, and making sure you're encouraging people to introduce themselves, having a little sticky post in there, which says, you know, if you're having, if you're stuck for inspiration on on what is in your introduction, answer these five questions. It's really easy, like just remove as much friction as possible, have an off topic section, got to have an off topic section in your forum. So much easier for someone who is naturally more of a lurker in a forum. It's a lot easier for them to jump into a conversation about the latest episode of Game of Thrones than it is for them to jump into a serious discussion, where maybe they're a little bit more hesitant about expressing their opinions. You want to get people into the right habit, get them in your community early, as part of your onboarding process. And you've got a much greater chance that, again, it's that kind of pain of disconnect. Not only are you going to miss something that's awesome content, but these guys who seem quite cool, who you had, you know, a good little exchange about whether it was right or wrong, that Cersei went at it with Jaime next to... I'll not go any further because that could actually be spoilers for anyone who hasn't watched a TV show ever saw that happened like five years ago. Do you know what I mean? It's like it's really like content's one thing to potentially miss on content's one thing to cut off relationships and connections and networking that you may have done within the community as a whole of the board game. And yeah, it can be a key part of retention. So you

want to make sure that's a factor in your onboarding as well. Definitely. Well, I think this podcast episode has been solid gold. I think you've given our listeners a ton of value, the people who are starting a membership site. There's so much great advice here. They need to put this episode on repeat. Mike, where can we find you online? And is there anything that you want us to check out? Yeah, for sure. We blog and we podcast over at TheMembershipGuys.com. Check that out. We do have a free Facebook group. We've got about 4,000 at last count membership site owners in there. If you go to TalkMemberships.com, pop that in your browser. That'll redirect to the Facebook group. And of course, we've got our own membership about memberships, membersiteacademy.com. Sounds great. And we'll link that up in show notes. If people want to find me online, you can find me on Twitter, lockdown underscore at my site, which is lockdowndesign.com. So for my co-host, Jonathan Denwood and the rest of the WP Tonic Posse, we're saying peace out and get your dose. interact interact interact interact interact interact interact interact interact interact interact interact