E25: 헤더 로슨(Heather Lawson) - "생활 기술과 훈련 컨셉"

It's just been so enjoyable, because I get to meet so many new dogs and so many lovely people. So I wanted to ask you a little bit about your training philosophy. How do you approach training? For me personally, I like to approach it as a teamwork situation. I want to look at the dog that's in front of me and work with what they are giving me and work at the level that they are capable of that particular moment, I guess you could say. My philosophy, you know, you get the sort of the old, well, I want to do positive and everything like that. It just never occurs to me to do anything but positive. And I want to make sure that I'm consistent, that I'm fair. I give my animals the better side of me at all times. Above all else, you know, my animals are family companions. So not only, you know, do I have to worry about what I'm doing in training, but I have to worry about what we're doing when we're not training. And so everything has to mesh and come together. And it's just, you know, basically a family unit. So I wanted to talk a little bit about the classes that you're going to be offering coming up in October. So let's start with the Loose Leash Walkers Anonymous class. And I am sure at least once, if not, you know, more than that, I will somehow manage to jumble those words because Loose Leash Walkers Anonymous is almost a tongue twister. But so why are life skills like that, like leash walking, such an important skill for sports dogs? And why is it such an incredibly difficult thing to teach? Well, like most people who do dog sports, you know, we travel, right? So we go to competitions. We, you know, do things with our dogs. We have to stay in hotels. We have to, you know, be out in the public. And having a dog with good manners, including loose leash walking skills, I think is very important because you, your dog is only working and doing those activities for a very, very short period of time. The rest of it, you know, if they're like, you know, most people, my dogs are, as I said, are part of my family. So when I'm not doing those skills or those competitions or anything like that, I'm taking my dogs out into the community. I don't want to be dragged all over the place. I want to be able to take them on the little sea bus that goes from one side of the inlet to the other. I want to be able to take them up and down elevators or into stores and do all of those types of things with them without, you know, people turning around and saying, you know, look at that. You know, dogs out of control. And I think it's important too, that when you're, even when you're competing, that you

have your dogs under control. They're not going in every different direction. They're not dragging you to and from, you know, whatever it is that you're doing, whether it's confirmation or obedience or even agility or nose work. I mean, sure, the dogs get excited, but at the same time, it's still nice to have a little bit of management and manners in place. And that's my own personal view. And I think it's important. Okay. The other side of it, why is it so hard to teach? Um, simply because we aren't consistent enough. I think, um, we don't think of it as a priority. Uh, and by priority, um, I mean, I was picked up on something long, long, long time ago from Sue Ailsby, um, at, you know, who's also teaching at Denzi. And that was when the leash goes on, that is your only priority of teaching, you know, loose leash walking. The, so getting from A to B is your only priority on a loose leash. And that has never, ever steered me wrong. Um, if we, if we put the leash on one point and then we go and we let the dog pull us to, you know, their favorite friend, or we let them, you know, pull us to go and sniff to something or pull us to go to the dog park. Uh, if we're inconsistent in our requirements, then we never get that loose leash walking as part of, uh, a regular manners skill. And you know what? And it's true. If I don't have the time to, to work on that, if I haven't given myself enough time, if my dogs are going to be excited and, and you know, the dogs get excited and with a little bit of a reset. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Mom, we remember if I don't have that time, I just will take those, you know, and use a muzzle magnet, which is basically a fistful of food. Let them, you know, nibble on it as I go from point A to B so that I don't get that loose leash, um, pulling. Um, but I get the loose leash, right? So I try to be consistent with everything that I'm doing. And I think that's why, um, the dogs, you know, don't get as far ahead in their loose leash walking. Cause we're also, um, very, you know, concerned about teaching them all of these other behaviors that one of the most important things is the loose leash walking. Um, because if they don't have that loose leash walking, they don't get out into the community. They don't get out to socialize. They're not much pleasure to be around because they're hard on your shoulder. They're hard in your elbow, hard on your back. Um, and so they end up only doing certain things and they don't have a well-rounded life. And, you know, with, especially with pet dogs, they end up getting stuck in the backyard. So they don't get the exercise. They don't get the exercise.

Then they have problem behaviors. They have the problem behaviors. Then they get surrendered. So loose leash walking, um, whether it's for your competitive dogs or for your family companions is one of the most important skills in, at least in my view anyways. And I think you hit on that, like that consistency point. It's so common to see somebody go into a class, teach loose leash walking. And the moment they leave the room, suddenly they forget everything that they've learned. Oh yeah. Yeah. And if I catch my students, my in-person students coming up the walkway and the dog is dragging them up, they know, they look at me and they immediately turn right around and go right down to the back and they do their leash walking all the way up. So now, you know, it's actually a running joke in classes that, oh, she caught us. Oh, we got to go back. And, and, and now they've almost, almost every single person who's been there by about week three, they all know that, that, uh, they got to practice their skills coming and going because that's, that's the whole point of it, right? You got to practice it 24 seven in order for it to stick. Um, and if you, if you don't, then, you know, it's, it's not going to happen. And you're giving the dog an inconsistent message and dogs don't work in gray. They work a little bit better in black and white. Mm-hmm. And I think that kind of leads really well into the next thing I want to talk about, which is this idea of, you know, the dogs being able to go out and about with you and do things. So I know you also teach the hounds about town class, which I'm assuming kind of touches on that a little bit. So what skills, what are the actual skills that you teach in that class and kind of how do you approach it? Um, okay. Um, with the hound about town, again, we teach, um, loose leash walking. Um, not as in depth as in the, um, loose, uh, loose leash walking, uh, walkers anonymous. Um, but we teach loose leash walking. We teach leave it. Okay. We don't want, we don't need hoovers, um, because there's so much garbage. There's so much garbage and things like that and bad things that the dogs could pick up. Um, as well as, you know, we don't need them going after that little child in the stroller that's coming towards them with that ice cream cone that's right at their level. Um, so a good leave it comes in handy. Um, many of the dogs live in condominiums now. So we teach elevator etiquette, um, which also transfers nicely into, um, riding on transit for those people who are enough to travel on transit. Uh, we work on chill and settle on the mat.

Um, a little bit of recalls, uh, grooming touch, uh, for the veterinary care, uh, door manners, um, and some of the other things that we do is we consider etiquette for when you are traveling, uh, and staying in hotels or staying in other, you know, locations. Um, and you know, how to, to manage your dog in busy situations. Um, just, you know, the basics, what would you do, you know, in your, in your everyday life when you're out and how to make it easier to take your dog with you more places, right? Um, the other thing that we do is we, um, also encourage people to, uh, you know, to take their dogs more places. Don't just leave them at home all the time. Of course, weather permitting, um, because it's good social interaction for our dogs. They don't necessarily have to be always just going to the dog park. Okay. They need to just, they need to be with you and be out and about and part of the community and the better behaved, um, animals we have in the community, the more access we're going to have for them. Um, and, and that's the key thing. Okay. People, um, say that there isn't that much access for animals, but that's because there's been, you know, perhaps maybe some, uh, inconvenient encounters that haven't gone so well because the dogs haven't been well-trained. Right. Um, also too, all of the things that we cover in here can be applied to the, um, I think down the, in your end of the woods, it says CGC, which is the Kimber. Canine Good Citizen. In our, in our area, it's Canine Good Neighbor. Um, and then you also have, uh, then there are other levels, um, urban canine title as well. So, you know, if you, if you were to go through the Houndabout Town class, you would be able to go and, uh, take your test and get your certificate. So it's just another way to promote responsible dog ownership, right? Getting them out, getting them trained and getting them part of the family. Now you didn't touch on two of the things that stood out to me when I was looking at the syllabus, which were the, the do nothing training and, uh, copy anyone. So what are those? And obviously how do you address them in class? Yeah. Well, they, I always get kind of weird sideways looks, um, when I talk about do nothing training, um, because it's kind of like people say, what do you mean do nothing training? I said, well, how often do you just work on having your dog, you know, do nothing? And everybody looks at me, well, you don't, you don't work on having the dog do nothing. And I said, oh yeah, you do. Right. And that's what we call settle on the mat, chill, um, learn how to not bug me every time

I sit down at the computer to do some work, uh, not bark at me every time I stand, I stopped to chat with the neighbor, uh, stop pulling me in all different ways. So it's all, it's kind of like just do nothing. Cause if you think about it, the first sort of maybe six months of the, of your dog's life, it's all about the dog and the puppy. Okay. Then when they get to look a little bit more adult, okay, all of a sudden they're no longer the center of attention, but because they've been the center of attention for that first, you know, eight weeks to six months. And there's been all this excitement whenever they're out and people stop and, and, and you, you chat or you do anything. It's very hard for the dog all of a sudden now to have it kind of cut off and just not be acknowledged. And this is where you then get the demand barking or the jumping on the owner or the jumping on other people to get that attention. Whereas if you teach that right in the very beginning, okay, and teach your puppies how to settle, whether it be in an X-pen or in a crate, or even on a mat beside you while you're watching your favorite TV show. Okay. If you teach them to settle and how to turn it off, then you're going to, you're going to not have that much of a problem going forward as they get older. Okay. The other thing too, is that, you know, by teaching our dogs, all of these different things that we want to teach them, that's great. And that's fabulous. And we should be doing that. But most dogs aren't active, you know, 100% of the time they're active, maybe 10% of the time. The other 90%, they're chilling out, they're sleeping, they're, you know, while their owners are away, you know, working. If they're not lucky enough to be taken out for a daily hike, then, you know, they've got to learn how to turn it off. And if we can teach them that in the early stages, we don't, you don't end up with severe behavior problems going forward. And, and I've done that with all of my puppies. My favorite place to turn, to train the do nothing training is actually in the bathroom. So, and, and what I do, what I do with that is my puppies, they get out first thing in the morning, they go to their potty, they come back in, we get a chewy or a bully stick or a Kong filled with food. And puppy goes into the bathroom with me and there's a mat and they get laid down on the mat. And that's when I get to take my shower. And all of my dogs, even to this date, in my 11 year old, if I'm showering and the doors open, they come in and they go right to their mat and they go to sleep and they wait for me.

And, and, and that's that do nothing training, right? And that actually even follows into, um, loose leash walking. Uh, if you, if you take that do nothing training, how often are you out and you're loose leash walking and you stop and chat to the neighbor or you stop and you are window shopping, uh, or anything else that you, you know, when you're out and about, if your dog won't even connect with you at the end of the line, then just, you know, and they, they won't even pay attention to you while you're standing there or they create a fuss, then chances of you getting successful loose leash walking going forward is going to be fairly slim. Okay. Um, the other thing that you mentioned was the coffee shop training. And that is, you know, nowadays, you know, people go and they meet at the coffee shop, uh, they, or they go for lunch, uh, and more and more people are able to take their dogs to lunch, providing they sit out on a patio. Um, and on the occasion where the dog is allowed to stay close to you, uh, we teach the dogs to either go under the table and chill or go and lie beside the chair and chill. Um, and teach them how to sort of just lie there, switch off, watch the world go by, you know, even if the waiter comes up, you know, you, you just chill out and just relax. And that allows the dog again, because they've got good manners to be welcomed even more places. Right. Right. It makes it so that you feel comfortable taking them with you to lunch or out. Yep. Exactly. Right. Exactly. There's, there's lots of places that dogs can go, um, providing, you know, and, and they're welcome providing they do have those good manners. And, you know, if we can keep those good manners going, then regardless of whether or not your dog sports or, or not, um, you know, it just opens up the avenues for, for so much more of us to do, you know, more things to do with our dogs. Mm-hmm. Now I wanted to, I know the match to sample class is new, so I wanted to make sure we talk about that too. For those not familiar with the concept, I have to admit, I wasn't initially, and then you kind of explained it, I think, on one of the Facebook lists. So for those who don't know what it is, can you kind of explain what that means, match to sample? The matched sample, um, is a type of sort of concept training. So concept, think of it, um, as, you know, the concept of mathematics or, you know, for, for us, you know, we know that if you add one and one, you get two, um, we're thinking you can, you can conceptually see that, oh, if somebody asked me for this, I can also get that, or we have the idea of big versus small.

There's a whole different types of varieties of concepts that match to sample in this particular case is a visual match to sample. So this is where the dog learns to look at an item that the trainer is holding and then find the object on a table that matches the one that the trainer is holding. Sounds a little complicated, but it's not really, um, because of those, the different things that we, stages that we go through in order to get them there. So for instance, I might hold up, um, a Kong and I might have a Kong and I might have, um, maybe a treat bag and I might have a cone and I might have a ball all in a row in front of me. So I hold up my Kong and I say, match it. And the dog looks at that Kong and then has to pick the right item out of that line of items on that table. I'm not saying get the, get the Kong or get the toy. I'm just saying match it. Once they've learned on things that they, they know, then we start introducing things that they may maybe have never seen before. They don't normally interact with. And so we teach them that whatever I'm holding, look at it and then figure out which one best matches that item and pick it out for me, either by a retrieve or, or a nose touch or, or targeting it. And it's actually, if you think about it, it's kind of the same thing, um, that they use with nose work. That's a match to sample, right? Here's this sample of this smell. Now go find it for me. Right. It's sort of the, what they use with, uh, search and rescue. Here's the smell of a person. I need you to find this person. Now go out into the world and match that smell to what I just gave you. Okay. And, and the concept training is, is neat because it uses, um, most of what we teach, you know, our dogs, we like shaping. It uses targeting. It uses problem solving and creativity on the dog's part. And it also utilizes behavior chains. So it's kind of a fun, different thing to do with the dogs. And it allows you to really, really expand and take your thinking past what the dog, you know, you ever thought maybe the dogs could learn. Even with, um, you know, you're, you're doing a match to sample, um, with the nose in cancer. Uh, I'm sure you've heard of them, uh, you know, matching cancer cells to, to, um, to see whether or not an individual has cancer cells. It's, it's all matched to sample. That's that concept training. Right. Um, there's other types of concept, uh, concepts, which are, um, things such as, uh, oh, adduction, where we take one, uh, one behavior, add it to another behavior, and you end up with a third behavior that that's called adduction.

Um, so it's one plus one equals three, right? It doesn't make sense, but it's, it's, it's what it is. So you get one behavior, another behavior, and you make a third behavior. That's where the one plus one, uh, equals three comes from. There's actually counting that the dogs are, um, has been out there now. Uh, I think Ken Ramirez is, is doing counting with, uh, with dogs. Also learning about, um, mimicry, which is, uh, Julie Flannery's class at FDSA, right? Um, can the dogs copy what you actually do, right? It's really kind of mind bending. And that's what is really interesting me right now. And that's what I'm doing with my youngest dog, Piper. I'm, uh, teaching her, um, the match to sample, um, as well as, uh, we're going to work on to see whether or not she actually can sort of read, if you will. Um, and, and I've got flashcards. And, and so I'm, I'm teaching her, you know, what this word means and teaching her to see whether or not she can put the two together. You know, you can teach the concepts of big and small, up or down, you know, go back, go forward. Um, it's just, it's just really, really, really cool stuff. That sounds really neat. It sounds like it's a very different, I guess, way of teaching your dog to look at the world. And I'd imagine, uh, at least the match to sample class would be really, it would be a good skill to use a dog's brain, especially if they're on medical for something, they could still do some of that stuff, stuff like that. It would be just a great training tool to have in your kit. Yes, you absolutely hit it on the mark. It is, it's a really good tool because it doesn't require a whole lot of activity. Um, but you do have to have the basics in place. It's not something that you would normally do with a dog that, you know, is maybe doesn't have any idea on shaping or targeting or, you know, doing or play, playing creative, um, games. Um, it, it does require a little bit of basics, but it's definitely, definitely a great tool for the dog that is, um, you know, maybe is not, not just on, on medical rest, but maybe can't interact with a lot of other dogs. Right. Um, maybe they, for some reason, you know, it, it's, uh, you know, they, they just need, um, a brain teaser that's going to, uh, keep them from going stir crazy. Right. Because the more the brain is, the more the brain has worked, okay. It's a balance, right. Everybody thinks, oh, the dogs need, dogs need exercise, but same time, they need to have that little brain, um, tinkled a little bit. Uh, and, and if you don't balance that off, then you get a dog that kind of goes stir crazy.

And again, harkens back to not being able to shut off when needed. Right. So it definitely is because it's, you train all different kinds of new behaviors and it's just another thing to draw on that, you know, trainer's toolbox, if you will, um, to sort of expand and, and see just what your dog can do. We often forget and we start to label our dogs as, oh, they, they, they can only do this. Right. I think they can do way more than, um, we give them credit for. And that's what kind of sort of tweaks my interest a little bit aside from, you know, the competitive obedience stuff that I do with them as well. So I do wanted to kind of talk for just a second more about that, about the idea of how maybe somebody could use those skills to teach some of the other things that they might want to teach. I mean, we, we talked a little bit about, um, you know, kind of how you could teach it as a brain teaser and as concepts. Um, you mentioned kind of nose work a little bit in there because this idea of teaching a bigger picture. Um, are there other ways that, that, that skill can be used and other behaviors that you can kind of use those skills in? Is it about communication? It's, it's about communication. So say for instance, um, you know, if we harken back to. It's a search and rescue, right? The dog has to make sometimes independent decisions because they're out searching, right? And they, they've been sent out and they're searching and they're going back and searching and you know, what are they supposed to do? I found the person, uh, do I stick with the person? Do I come back? So that, that training aspect of it is that they come back. Um, they tell you that they're there and then they go back to that, um, uh, person that's lost, right? I guess you could sort of put it down to, it teaches your dogs, uh, to be creative. Now I don't know if that's a good thing or not. You know, even I've had a situation with, with my own dog when I was competing, um, a number of years ago where I threw the dumbbell and it went outside the ring, but there was access for her to, to go around a gate and get it and then come back. And rather than sort of stick her head through and get caught at it, she looked at it, she looked down either side of it and then she backed up, went around, got the dumbbell and came back and completed her exercise. So had I just, had I just taught it in, in, you know, basic, uh, format, go out, get it, come back, you know, whatever. And I hadn't taught her how to be creative. We might've failed that whole class, but she did it. She, she started to think on her own.

And that's what I, that's what I appreciate in the dogs is that they, they can figure it out. They can problem solve. And I don't think that we really truly understand just how much problem solving ability that our dogs really do have. Right. Um, and I'm constantly, constantly amazed at, at how they, they develop that problem solving. And we sometimes forget because we're teaching them all of these specific behaviors that we want them to do. And we don't let them kind of sometimes expand on those. And, um, I think that is the role it plays for me in my larger training toolbox, right? Is it, it allows me to just sit back and say, Oh, okay. So what if we did this? Can you do that? And the dog goes, Oh yeah, sure. I can do that. Boom. And then you're off on a different tangent. So, you know, it, it does definitely take your training in, in different ways, but it also really, really expands your training and, and your appreciation for, for the dog and, and their capabilities. So it sounds like there are kind of two pieces there, right? To kind of distill that down a little bit. There's the idea of kind of helping your dog be the best they can be in terms of as smart as they can be, as capable as they can be. And then there's like this piece about teaching them how to be creative problem solvers, which I'd assume also makes things like proofing and, you know, fluency much easier. Yeah, exactly. Because they, they grasp the concepts, you know, much quicker. And I know for, this isn't sort of really on the match to sample side of it, but if you consider, say the, I taught her the chin rest. Okay. And one of the best things I ever taught this dog, because the chin rest taught her how to be just still. And that stillness transferred into my dumbbell. It transferred into her being examined by a judge in the confirmation ring, and it's transferred into her stays. So just that simple thing of a chin rest with, you know, with duration, or even a duration and a nose touch, transferred in and taught her the concept of holding still. And waiting until she was released. And it was such an easy transfer of all of that one single skill of holding still, you know, went to so many different other behaviors. And I'd never taught that before, taught it that way before, but I'm so glad I did with Piper, because it just, it, it just sort of went, oh, no, that really, that transfers into all kinds of things. And it really made me go, woo, you really get this. Right. And, and so there's, there's a concept there, you know, but in a, in a different way than the match to sample. So it's, it's, you know, what are we teaching them?

It's not just a sit there and, and hold that position until I tell you otherwise. Um, it's just the, the concept of, can you transfer this? Oh, you understand it. So that, that's why I like the, the concept training, um, you know, such as the, the adduction, the mimicry, the, the copy behaviors, the match to sample, all of those things are really kind of mind benders. So I wanted to wrap things up by asking you the three questions that I usually ask at the end of the podcast. So the first one is what is the dog related accomplishment that you are proudest of? The biggest and best accomplishment was with my dog, Micah, um, who's long gone. Um, but she was a dog, uh, German shepherd that, um, had a few demons inside, uh, just that she was very, very sensitive and very, um, aware of sound. Um, and, and so she was a little concerned when things, you know, even the crack of a bat at a baseball game or tennis or things like that, uh, loudspeakers, God help us, um, you know, where it was an issue. And she was also sometimes concerned about people as well. Um, she was a, a friendly dog. You know, there's nothing in that issue, but everybody told me, you'll never get this dog in the ring. You'll never be able to compete with her. And we, I sat down one day and I was really kind of in tears and I, and I said, okay, this isn't working. What are we going to do? How can I help you through this? And the moment I, I switched that in myself, we just were a way to the races. It wasn't about, you know, getting her to do it. It was, how can I help her through it? And I ended up taking her, uh, to top 10 obedience dogs in Canada twice, two years straight. And she ended up being the top obedience German shepherd in Canada, five years straight. You know, it was nice to be able to do that, but at the same time, it was, I guess, just sort of really in my heart that, wow, when you don't give up and you don't listen to everybody and you just listen to the dog, amazing things can happen. And I think that's my proudest sort of compliment accomplishment, I guess, is, is working with Micah. She taught me so very, very much. Um, and I, and I really appreciate, you know, her allowing me the gift of making all my mistakes with her. Um, but we, we ended up, um, on a high and I'll never forget that dog ever. So that, that's my proudest accomplishment. I think that's a pretty good one. Yep. All right. So my next question is what is the best piece of training advice that you've ever heard? Oh, geez. There's been so many different, um, pieces. Um, I guess the, the best is work with your dog, be a team and don't label your dog because

you'll limit their abilities. Um, so you know how people will sometimes, oh, it's the breed. Oh, it's, um, they just do that because they do that. Um, I never try to label or, um, limit what my dogs could do. I always assume that they're going to rise to the occasion that they're going to do the best that they can. Um, and I think that's sort of probably been the best advice because it's taken me into different types of sports, um, you know, that I, I might not have ventured into with my dogs. One of my dogs I did, um, nose work with, um, that was her thing. So, uh, if I had labeled her and, you know, said, no, you're going to do this, you're going to, you're not going to do that. Um, it might not have been the best thing for her, but because I let her lead me where she wanted to go and I took what she had to give me, um, we had loads of fun doing nose work. Um, and I learned a new sport. Okay. So I always kind of think of, of that as like work with your dog and be a team. Um, and then don't label your dogs. You'll limit them and yourself. So my last question, you're, you're in a great position because I know that you, you mentioned kind of Sue earlier and you've been, um, good friends with the FENZ crew for, for a while now. I know you're pretty involved. So who is someone else in the dog world that you look up to? Yeah. Um, somebody else in the dog world. Well, I'm not going to name names because I think, um, but what I find is that they, there's no one specific individual. What I have, what I have done is I've been able to meet many different people, many fabulous trainers that I just go, Oh, wow. Now that's interesting. And that's what I do is I pick up all the little tidbits from all of these different trainers. And I think that's what's the most important thing because I don't want to get caught up in, um, a recipe because there, there is no recipe, you know, I mean, I could name different kinds of people, but I think it's better to say that I just pick up all the little tidbits along the way that pertain to me and my dogs at that particular time. Um, and that way, and I, and what works for me, um, because not, uh, one single dog trainer will have everything that I'm going to need. And so if I keep my mind open, um, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to get those little tidbits that's going to make me and my dog better. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Heather. Heather. No, you're more than welcome. This was fun, a little bit nervous, but fun, exciting. It's, I could talk dogs for hours. Um, and I've had fun, I've had fun doing this. This was a very enjoyable.

Thanks for asking me on. Thanks so much for coming on the podcast, Heather. And thanks to our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week with Nancy Tucker to discuss greetings, separation anxiety, and behavior modification solutions that work for both parts of the human canine team. If you haven't already subscribed to our podcast and iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzie Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzie for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by bensound.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang and transcription written by CLK Transcription Services. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training.