에피소드 13: Dr. Helmut Raiser

and always when he uh talks about his don russian which was a araba um um uh female then uh there came something special in him and uh i think this is something what i got but um i'm the the fourth of four children and my sister inga was bitten from a dog when she was young and this caused lots of fear for me and uh so it starts and a friend of mine had shepherds when i was a young boy maybe four or five years old and uh he likes to to make to tease me and he had this dog house and i run away i was a good i was a good helper at this time already and the dog jumped on me and i fall down and the dog was on me and i was totally confused and the fear became more so i was sensitized but i had always the wish i want to have a dog and my mother never allowed this and when i was 14 my father said helmut i'm working there he developed from blacksmiths to uh cars at first to nsu uh bicycles then there come motor bicycles and there come cars at the end he had a car garage with seven employees and volkswagen company and but when he was developing his work his work he said to me helmut i'm working there in the neighbor village and there is a little let's go there and we take a puppy so we took my first dog cauti a mixture of shepherd and spitz oh and she was a female and uh so i had a kennel in the uh at my house and when she was in heat all the all the dogs from the from the village came and of course it digged under the and so first uh heat five puppies oh my god i didn't know where to give them so all our employees had to get one puppy send second heat and pregnancy again and my father says it's impossible and so at this time it was normal we have a very different sensitivity to dogs yes yeah uh we went to the um to the hunter and he shot the dog and my father said we'll take a male and a real dog so my sister helga she gave me to christmas um lexicon about dogs and there was doorman um heart uh not you cannot fool him and it's a one person dog and said oh that's my dog so i made an advertising in the newspaper and i had the good luck that in uh close by in hildesheim there was uh boris zimmermann and he has a real good doberman he won the championship twice and this was a very hard dog and nobody could touch him and uh so he dobermans were quite popular at one time they were very good they were very good yeah and nowadays this race is totally dead and ruined and so uh he answered my advertising and i wanted puppy from this dog but of course a no-name like me didn't get a puppy from this dog but there was another uh group another litter in braunschweig and that and my father that

hope this one is who's not coming in front who's standing in the back is an intelligent dog and i got this okay uh but uh boris sirman took me to saarsted this was my first place and my first teacher were in saarsted there was a good group in this area and i met there klaus huber he died already but this was my first teacher and klaus was also something special and with the dogs and they realized very quick that i saw you were already kind of getting into shoots on then i read it was wow it was a police uh polizei hunde fine a police dog club okay and they were very good people and we have lots of rottweilers which never go out of the arm and i was young with 16 and strong and so i have to do the helper work and then i uh got a tent and i went 14 days on the training field and trained my dog all by books yeah and what i saw from from the friends and my doorman always wants to run away so i have to close the door and train from the morning to the evening and he was he was very thin by all the stress but um i have no idea what i did it but well i tried it and then comes the first trial and um i should do the no the first trial was uh i participated and i won with 200 i think 79 or 70 or something like this isn't it crazy how we remember certain things yeah and i remember that there comes um lambrecht an old man a judge and he was one of the important person in this club he said helmut you can become a good dog handler you have future as a dog man you see i was always very gray even especially in this age now i'm quite polite but at this age i looked at him i said hey uh who wins here and oh i never i never get uh so shy and uh it was in sv afterwards much worse and so this was my start and i learned from klaus huber and klaus huber was the first generation of pupils from bernard menel at this time there was bernard menel in castle and klaus always talked about him oh there's bernard menel bernard menel and he knows so i had no uh contact to him but um to his to his first pupil generation and what what years are we talking we are talking about 70 before before 70 okay before okay uh 66 i got my doberman and with two years i went to the training field must be 68 69 something about this and so uh i had to do the helper work in the first trial i uh was a helper of course all dogs ran away and at this time you were a good helper when you can threaten the dog away yeah so everybody wants to train with me and i had fun in this i learned a lot but when i went to my studying this was 73 um

klaus told me if you go to gottingen you must go to wende there's wolfgang bechtold and günther wasshausen they are the best in the area yeah and he introduced me to them and these were very big friends to me over many many years and uh so i came to this club and they had a dog bodo from bodo von der rittersteiger they just bought this six years old dog from the uh from the customs because nobody could touch the dog and um they feed them only with a stick through the kennel uh and so and wolfgang and gunther they went there wolfgang threatened every dog away just with a handkerchief and that's so impressive when you look right yeah yeah wow and um they took this dog and they went i think 10 20 kilometers with this dog home and gunther had this dog in his house and when we were sitting there in vendor uh you know that well nobody can can make barking with this dog every door barks and they laughed about me and say yeah come on show yeah and at this time um this was just uh quite a brutal work um because the background is in the 60s there was no barking in the blind it came up in the 60s and before the dog had only to bite and when it came up we had no knowledge about as a logical things like we know today uh we tried everything was a ring ring teasing and aggression and compulsion so should seems was aggression and compulsion nothing else of course we had the sack and we did pray but nobody talked about prey bernard menel was the first one who brought the term prey and defense in in this yeah go go more about this because that was one of my questions i come on this item and um so um we went out with this dog and i stood in the in the blind i had a this box with stones in it and bolo came and i was quick bum bum bum i gave him a bite i said now what is a problem he bucks and uh well and so i won i was i was a star i was upcoming star and gunther was already a judge a very good one and a good handler also wolfgang was not such a good helper but he has all knowledge and talks and studied all care books and so and um so you were pretty fortunate to i mean i guess it's germany too i mean it's the the where everything started as far as schutzgund goes and but still you were pretty fortunate to be able to i was happy that i met claus huber he introduced me to gunther and wolfgang and gunther showed me around and introduced me to all the clubs and to all the people and uh to the director of the area and uh this was my my start and um and he introduced me to bernard mennel and so we worked two three years now two years with leo from from stemmy and we couldn't bring him for the

barking so we went to bernard mennel and it took him three minutes what we have not reached in one and a half year he had just he just put the arm put the uh tele tucked uh yeah and let him bite stemmy said out and the dog was or yeah so bernard's good timing and it doesn't take more than uh three to five minutes and this dog understand what is his comfort right and then bernard asked me to come with his seminars he was a little bit older already and he always talked and i had to do the work and i never did what he talked but he was so pleased that everything works what he talks and after a while i told him bernard uh we talked about prey and defense but uh you don't know what it is no i didn't tell him of course i never told him uh because he was uh he was my uh big um ideal and with him i had a very good time but günther brought me also in this area uh and introduced me to um will richter he was a director of this area and um i had to when when he judged trial and he saw that i was very good and good in the motoric and everything so i should become a teacher helper uh he said i said what is this wow say yes say yes do it yeah i said okay i will do and the teacher helper this time was a helper who worked the dog in in the trials nothing else okay but we were full of the spirit of prey and defense and here was going on and uh every thursday we had our training in ven and there was a discussion up to uh four o'clock in the morning and uh interesting so and when and when there was four o'clock günther said always when someone said so we finished where do we go now and then we went to the last pub and got a beer and a schmalzbrot perfect but at eight o'clock i was always in the lesson in the university and i was sitting in the last row and i always was sitting like this this was my why uh life as a student in the beginning because i couldn't become a dentist i wanted to become a dentist but um i had a average of 2.4 and i was one of the big uh of the uh ages where there were so many children and the numerous clausus the entrance for the university for dentistry went from uh 2.0 to 1.0 and so in the end i waited uh 14 terms and in this time i already finished my studying as a teacher for sports and chemistry um and i suffered in this time that i couldn't do uh dentistry at the end if i wouldn't have this park studying yeah i wouldn't have this body uh and the healthiness in my age right and we would never created this modern dog sport in this way yeah because uh we i was a second generation of pupils from bernard

menel and uh we did a lot trial and error in our thursday thursday night discussions and gunter uh me i was a progressive yeah with l always new ideas wolfgang or the conservative uh shit shit shit shit when i came with prey wolfgang no no no no no and uh then when he accepted i was already back to defense because uh when we build up the dog only with prey they did a very nice uh technical work with 10 months but this was no sure seriousness this was no students because maturing of a dog with a shepherd is 18 months two years and then matures the gray you know the aggression and if you settle the exercises before there is maturing there comes no conflict by this by this uh um you see i showed this in the seminar yeah there is antagonism between um drive and technique and uh the dog wants the drive we want the point we want the technique and by this struggling uh you have only conflicts and in the past we were very brutal to um reach the technique and nobody cared uh about happiness and and and drive if the dog works perfect this was a v yeah the 100 point in the bundesliga with mara would be today maybe uh 90 or something like right and well in this 10 years of park study i had so many time uh to to do something with dogs and um i went to all lessons in the forest in the biologics in the psychology in the for teachers and um always i such a what can we use for dog sport and then when they made me for a teacher helper and we had we are full of this spirit yeah i said well a teacher helper must teach how to train a dog and then i sit down and type write it you had no computer and something else you have to put on matrizia and if you do one word wrong you can start from the beginning yeah and i uh taped uh i don't know how many maybe four or five pages about pray about defense about aggression about learning classical conditioning instrumental conditioning and then um i they introduced me on the area meeting as a new um teacher helper and gave me the option to make a short talk and so i talked about this and what happened in the first year 10 odds groups of my area asked me for a seminar and then i gave them the script and as a poor student i said well uh please give me two marks uh for the paper and everything and i which was probably not that common at that time right no and um no at this time nobody earned money with this and for us in vendor it was absolutely no go that you earn money with your hobby yeah and well um in the second year it was already europe belgium switzerland austria and then afterwards

finland sweden everywhere and then all of the world yes and i realized what we figured out by trial and error and we as i said uh wolfgang was conservative me was i was progressive and gunther was always a dummy wall between us yeah and was open-minded perfect combo and we were we were a super trio yeah and when we came there we have our pipes every the wind that comes with the pipes and we smoked with the pipes and uh well it was a super time and then come people like helmut huber uh like others and uh horse knocher and what we have figured out by trial and error in 10 years after two years they got it after two years they were better than they were better than we were yeah and and then it's uh this message with the prey and everything was spread out i got lots of uh critics from the sv i wanted to uh after after a while i had to overwork the script yeah and um then i tried to find a publisher at first i asked the sv if i can publish this in the sv magazine oh no we cannot talk about prey we get angriness with the hunters i said okay okay okay later when the pitbull killed the the child in hamburg yeah uh suddenly um uh prey was totally forbidden biting was forbidden we have to do this bh this is uh uh crazy test there and uh this was always so far from from from the real from the truth but there were official decisions still up to today with spy collar with electric collar with everything this is so crazy what they decide but see it our society uh with with covet with uh in germany with electricity and uh this is all just um ignoring the facts and it's only um what is this ideology it is ideology ideology it's ideology and and making money and making money and making money money money money it's a big deal but uh we have this problem from the beginning in the dog sport with that we never got uh um a lobby in the in the big uh companies in in the big uh organizations uh fci vdh shepherd club whatever yeah they are always uh uh kicking us in the ass for our work and uh showing off with our results and this made me uh quite angry a little bit later in the beginning i was very eager to win and when i saw fritz bieler with dragon and with enno i said oh i must be better and this was my idea uh that i can beat fritz uh because this was the first uh championship i saw uh because this was the first uh championship i saw gunter took me uh to the championship where fritz runs with enno and with leagon and so i got my imprints where to go amazing yeah and well um seminar started people came learned developed more nowadays

uh many people like ivan developed a lot more in this sport and have super creative ideas and i like this that you invite me because this is a we can't we call this always the elephant round yeah uh to talk on this level we have this in our lcc week every year that we invite someone um to to discuss with us like you did inviting me um have discussion look over the border uh what else can i learn and it's so funny and so effective uh to do this well back to the time uh in let me just stop you for a moment just to to explain to to my audience that uh how how we got to this point that we are talking in person after quite a few years um so we we just decided that everybody for some reason of course knows you about what you it's my problem where everywhere i come everybody knows you and says helmut helmut i cannot remember yes but not many people i at least i don't think too many people in the states are aware of of the experience and knowledge that you have in tracking and i i was genuinely genuinely interested in to hear you make a presentation it was um it was um it was beautiful this two days that we did here i cannot be more grateful that that you came and you did um and yeah it's that that's what dog training is to to be able to communicate with each other and sometimes somewhere somebody knows something and then we have to connect we have to test it we have to question it and then well it's working knut fuchs said this uh very uh precise he said nowadays if somewhere in the world comes up a new tool yeah this is at once the good people uh uh take it at once try if they can't integrate this in their work or they throw it away you know and uh yeah so uh you remember when we met in the uh first time i i told you four three sentences i said now i can go home you know everything yeah yes about uh uh receptor clothing about uh gaga effect uh yeah and um well and um then the coordination uh no there was there were and i'm sure for me there were four takeaways big ones like i mean very very important ones you know like um with with it's just the fact that you can um and you should allow the dog that little time out to gather his thoughts and and proper mindset to get back to work normally what do almost everybody does at that point they don't give the dog any moment it's like no you must go yeah and i learned as my employees in my practice in the beginning i i felt very sorry for the first one who learned at my practice uh 35 years ago

they had to work eight hours nowadays with this princess we get i get no employees you can use nowadays because their education is terrible and but um nowadays i know if they work half an hour yeah they need a rest if i let them work one hour they quit and they go home and and try another work because uh they get a block they get gaga they go out of order and then one is in this conflict goes to gray and uh argues argues argues the other goes to blue and stays away yeah so i learned this that the mental condition uh is something you have to extend and i told you in the seminar this is something um you cannot force with compulsion yeah you can push borders with compulsion but if you do too much uh you get this blackout and therefore uh this is something you have to extend by training like if you want to build up a muscle correct if you do too much in the beginning it's broken and if you do step by step it grows and that's the same with the with the concentration for such a work uh dentistry is such a work on such a field in the halogen light with a microscope yeah so very concentrated and my uh well if i work with my superstars in the practice they work eight hours yeah but not with a beginner and when the right and when the dog goes 10 steps in a perfect way and has afterwards his this gaga effect yeah uh then he has learned something and if we have the conflict and you put more conflict on it it never helps it cannot work it never helps yeah yeah like it's really i i highly recommend that you know when anybody that's interested in tracking they should be calling you any email i worked already with all the big ones hand in hand over the track and yeah they they they many of them called me what what is your secret why do you score always so high i said yes because you know like now they with how how how it is with social media media and influencer and you know if you if you do good marketing yeah people think you're really good and it takes just a common sense to to check what are you a good teacher have you accomplished something what like like it's very easy to check like i you know what happened was me and uh my friend uh greg doubt we were talking and it's like well yeah there's all sorts of people giving seminars everywhere and they're big names and then you go to working dog which is a beautiful place to fact check things you know and there was like let's check helmet right of course you know and it's like from i don't know for how many years with how many dogs like some consistency of excellence course

ivan the most thing that i'm proud of is when i take a dog of course i check will it work or will it not work if it works i keep this dog sometimes friends said hey this dog is under your level you must take a different no i have a dog and they try the optimum and all my dogs i showed over four five six years on a high level on the same high level and they don't get older yeah of course they get a little bit older but not in drive and not in spirit and and i never need a veterinarian if you understand what i want to say yeah and not in the in the in the in the past and so i'm back to the point uh where we talked about uh my first experience were that uh we got a dog gunter was judging mara bush and she uh she got the uh she ran away from the barking but she said gunter said this is a super bitch we must have puppy from this yeah she was bad trained and um we got a puppy and it was a super puppy i said this puppy i want to have so we went to the breeder it was a 36 hour uh trip from one pup to the other without sleeping and i told um um karlane schmidt hey you must make schutzon three with this dog and i want a puppy from this oh i can do this he was a breeder yeah i said i will do this uh oh if you do this uh but i get a puppy for me you get two i said so i took this female i trained this female after three months um there was a trial far away and i said well i will go to this trial and uh make the schutzon three that i can qualify for area test and then for bundesieger and wolfgang said well tracking you can do make a v obedience well 80 if you're good luck you can make an sg in schutzdienst so i came back 98 97 96 how did you do this and everybody told me when they see my training in the past this is crazy with helmet if you see him in training you always think uh uh you cannot do a trial and then he comes and makes three times v at this time yeah so why already at this time i worked on these three forces yeah the drive the active compulsion the pressing in my my head i had already this uh these three things but i had not this model for this this came always later yeah it was always trial and error first was a stomach and then comes a brain right intuitively you understand yeah but this is where like how you said i guess now that i'm listening to you becoming the teaching helper that was a very important step in your development because that made you that made you start to write and once you start writing about something you start to understand that we know different level for yourself right i was so i am still astonished when i read my

book what i what i published um 79 what i already put in it what and later it made sense from us because i looked in the science uh studied behavior studied everything studied physiology and i put it to this book what i wrote it was very hard to find a publisher but at the end i found someone and we're talking about the their shots yeah yeah and um well when this book came up uh i had already it was 78 79 the book comes up i had already performed with mara brucecker schloss on the bundesliga first first first trial was nice uh there was a backstone crook from hamburg in a uh in a pokal camp and uh they already drink their beer because he has uh 99 99 and was a winner and mara was in heat so i was the last one oops that's happening and suddenly they got the glass fall down with 99 100 and this was my first uh entrance and i won a coffee machine from my area president and over the whole studying i cooked my coffee with this machine so um then i uh went with mara to uh bundesliga and who was this guy he uh he was bundesliga the year before and he was before me and he went back no he went into the stadium to do his performance and he passed me when i brought mara back and he just asked me um what did you do i said 100 and i felt the eyes in my back gluing on me yeah he was with the champion the year before and um so it was a 19 100 obedience and the 99 should scenes and the tracking was perfect the last article she sniffled on a very stinky leather and went on 95 95 with the help and so i i think it was a false place or something like this this was my first um start with um with a bigger trial um and then besides this i already uh trained my vargo this was high breeding uh and it was a dog uh well he was choleric uh and with nine months i said i can beat fritz bieler in obedience it's perfect and in tracking uh of course i had not this style of tracking but i was busy i was so busy and difficult and everything so it was hof and i had six times uh ground changing yeah everybody has ground changing yeah so 40 percent failed and i did a 99 and then comes obedience and i put my dog on the post for the obedience and suddenly he blow off i said oh dear but this was a stress yeah because the pancreas already was broken by this psychosomatic stress what i gave to the dog and i i learned what i can do with compulsion how much to push right and there was a different sensitivity well uh before was a

qualification to the world championship and the first fall occasion i won with this dog then i went to uh holiday a friend uh kept my dog when he came back he was fat yeah so the second qualification was also quite good but he crashed all through the a-frame yeah because he was too fat with his hard drive and uh then came custer i i just a quick question because i always i i mean you're you're somebody that would have answers to this when did the a-frame when did the wall the straight wall became an a-frame that was before you probably it was quite in the beginning of of my career i think in the beginning it was still the uh the straight straight 180 wall yeah but that was a big change yeah and we will talk about the german shepherd evolution but yeah okay yeah i can talk about the dogs later but i must interesting story um so second i did the sixth place and then kosta came made this in my beer and mr reiser when you take of your beer we will take you also to the championship this was a mistake because uh i was very gray in this and i said nothing and they took me as a reserve and then the team captain came and said helmut um you must go with your dog for the helpers when they train and show your dog for this and i said hey oh i qualified for bundesliga i'm not here to brush the shoes from somewhere if i can perform i can win here but not uh as a serve yeah and then this argues then i should go to dr rummel he was always with a tie and etikette so he went with me uh to the field and he yelled on me what do you do what do you think who you are and said hey stop yelling yeah uh i'm here to win not to be a slave and he turned away and i should not get my um reimbursement yeah so i didn't care for the money but i was pissed off with this so i went to the to the um office knocked and the door opened and they were all sitting around yeah and cream hammer what do you want i said hey i'm sure you know what i want yeah also with his voice this was this was a good thing what i ever have always when when i was uh provoked i my blood runs cold and i was never excited this is the same when i perform with the dog when i go in the blood runs cold and i can concentrate yeah so yeah we have no time uh wait outside and when i went out this was accident the door crashed because the wind but this makes much impression it didn't take long it looks came out and yeah mr right i know hey hey i don't want to talk with you yeah and rummel came out and went away and i with a loud voice i say hey what mr rummel uh presented yesterday to me this is incredible and

uh this is not uh honoring a dog sportler so since this time everybody knows me and then it happened two weeks later was a bundesliga and when bargo in front of obedience blow off i said oh and then they all came rummel came and flebber came with with the stick and kuster came with the stick and everybody came watch what i will perform okay 99. oh wow and at the end when i said for all that blood he flat out like a lizard and so but it was a shitty dog in protection yeah and i trained with stemmy this dog and i have to pimp him up for that there is some uh um some adrenaline in the blood and then uh he goes crazy so i asked the neighbor if i can put the dog there in the post and i asked my friend gregor stand up there and when um when the last one goes out uh wait a little bit and then you call me in that i can start at once yeah with this hectic and uh so um they go they they asked you as a hey god wait wait wait yeah and hey wait wait wait yeah and then in the last moment i attracted my dog and i took my dog and went in and they were very excited and i did 95 and one perfect this dog so that was the the first time this was one and this was exactly uh this 1979 when my book was was coming out yeah perfect and this was a good timing yeah by accident and with vargo at this time we trained uh in a way when we put the finger in the collar yeah uh that was a devil with this dog i could make a pub empty when i come in and what he means and stemmy has the same dog yeah and we make fun with this and so the problem was now i was on the podium and in front of the podium was such a microphone and my dog was standing there and i put a mother on and fritz came fritz was i think on the second place hey we put the mother we can do it i said if i put the mother long uh i cannot give so much compulsion here of the audience and he will he will be awful he will bite yeah and so i went in the with the muzzle and it went quite well when the first one congratulated me but then came costa with a stick limping and when costa was 20 meters away suddenly brago focused and costa came clearer and when you stretched out the hand all the trophies fall down and a real noise the dark up and so and then come 20 30 people and always so i blamed the whole scenery so uh in the beginning i was this nice boy coming up so talented and now they hate me all and this was my uh my entrance in um in the sv uh but i had the experience that by all this compulsion uh i gave why the entrance when you think about by by yeah and then comes this what what what riser is i'm consequent yeah and um i really felt sorry for my dog

because his pancreas was uh psychosomatic broken and i have always to feed pancreas that he can develop the the meal and and after and after the bundesliga i said you must not work anymore yeah so i stopped working i stopped pancreas and the dog became healthy again and this made me something in the brain when i had mara she was talented yeah and you don't work the the female she started to uh uh bite her legs and hair was out yeah and um when you worked her everything was nice yeah she was healthy she was super in condition and uh with vago when you work him for our sport uh he gets sick psychosomatic sick and then i said um i start criticizing the breeding of sv now we are on the point of breeding and i uh made this uh uh this speak that i said uh quanto quanto muzzon marco uh they are nothing for this and uh you need we need a working dog and then comes from our club in vendor they promote it nice and good and from vende comes uh if you try nice and good you will get nor nice not good and then was the fernheim uh clicker with the martin brothers they drink wine and offered uh water yeah so they made inbreeding and in readings and and forbid it for the others so they had the big pro big advantage to the others and um martin produced this worldwide um economic with the shaver hunt and uh suddenly uh the breeding speeds up in a way uh with this terrible dog yeah then comes from me uh in uh dog in front frock in the in the back you know for no hunting for so and i criticized uh the um the fishes starting stinking from the head uh so they always tried to throw me out the first they tried threw me out when i uh said marco my can't quant to mozzon marco they are not good uh and uh always i and they blocked me for strange because they blocks are the dogs that i that's when i started to be like oh wow there is dogs and pedigrees and there is moots and contouring and these are the dogs that i kind of got introduced to but i have a like we get to your story but i think a very interesting question i have for you when when did that split happen of show and working dogs how how did that even happen well um when herman martin produced the took over yeah uh he started with a uh wsv and this opened a big market yeah shepherds were sold for 500 um uh 500 um uh deutschmark at this time to japan and uh so now this is something everybody wants to do of course and uh there was a situation um that the area presidents were

uh uh kermaster president of the area showbree show judges and uh herman martin uh judged every year the hauptsuchtschau gebrauchson classerüden okay so in three and a half hours he donated 3.5 million or uh d mark to the people that's wild yeah and he gave it always and in the beginning they had a winner then they had a va group of 11 dogs why because we have 16 areas and 16 area presidents and 16th kermaster okay any more questions interesting yeah and who was obedient yeah got a va dog yes that's that's well known this this va dog uh could create uh 90 meetings per year with 1000 deutschmark yeah uh these were 90 000 black money without tax afterwards uh the tax office came in and realized with some uh and they got big problems but at this time um herman martin um cemented his power with judging the va dogs uh males uh males the males in the in the in the house of show and uh 11 people are the majority of 15 do you know what the others uh four do right he doesn't have to say something everybody wants to please him uh to to to be one of them and so he created a big breeding mafia and then when he spread this over the world um all these kermaster one got spain one got italy one got uh uh whatever yeah i mean it's a beautiful model yeah and then they go there they say they go there for judging and then of course they ask where can i get such a good dog they sell the dogs there next year they were invited again and of course their own dogs are the best ones and this is a this is a self-magnifying uh business uh at this time yeah and herman martin was the boss and we had a situation executive legislative media and um well all the power were in the hand of these 15 people yeah so and when riser came and says the fish is stinking from the head they judged me and it didn't take long and the official judge says well if you are uh if you are blamed and if you participate you cannot be the judge so i always i always kicked them in the ass and they tried to um they tried to uh always block me in the area test in the beginning they did the mistake they told me on thursday you cannot start the weekend well friday i got a judge for a quick decision and uh they had the decision either they pay 500 000 euros deutschmark at this time or go six months to jail or they let me start yeah and so i always started against enemies and they beat me and beat me and beat me but i was good enough that they never could

beat me totally away and uh as it it works for three three four times i win the bundesliga yes and um well um it was uh the situation there was uh vargo what i say when i when i saw that a dog who has not the talent is raped in a way that he gets sick and i said this is too ugly i will not do this and there were two two imprints where i changed my mind the first imprint was uh when we had no knowledge and did not meet bernard mendel uh we tried to uh to make the dog bring the dog to barking with with force you see everything we with the stick we hit the legs that they limped on three legs and with a with the cigar we pressed on the nose and with uh a chain we uh so everybody was someone was good with the sticks other one was good with the chain and you were the best one if you can make the dog barking and when i broke the canine of a dog of a very good dog i said hey this is it's not that way if we destroy the dog to train them there is something wrong and then come this part from bernard mendel and this makes me so motivated to write down to spread this message to improve the dog sport to make it more animal protective and more clever this was my first big imprint when i realized what i do there is incredible yeah and the second was when vago became sick yeah and uh i realized this is if you don't work with talent then i came with this with a talk quanto canto mutton marco they are for this they are shitty dogs and again they tried to lock me out but i came back always with quite good results and um so later when i had 20 years no healthy shepherd yeah uh i said there is a problem with a with the cowdai quina yeah and they want to kick me out for this because i uh said so negative for this race right some years later yeah and you saw in the world championship all the foreign countries come with these dogs who could not jump because our people were already clever enough to sell them with two and a half years or with three years when they see that the spine is it doesn't work yeah so nowadays also the foreign countries are more clever than germany and but this was a development um when i saw that something goes wrong with the training and with the breeding i always felt i should do something or i should quit yeah but as we have such a nice environment with the people and good friends all over already by all these seminars you see all over the world are so super people yeah and um so uh i went on i wrote this book at the same time i became bundesliga so this was a big thing and everybody used the whip how was how was the book how did the germans accept it did they like the book

how how did that like the first because it was a very different book for the time that it came out only one uh right about this and uh this was uh 15 000 uh books they produced and they were run out very quick and uh no i think it was the second edition was uh 15 000 books and this was also sold very quick and then um uh i thought then came up this video with vhs yeah oh i'll tell you a story about this but go on and so i said i in the video i can do it very very much better and i make a i asked uh in in dortmund production company um if we can film this and they say hey you cannot talk this must be official i said i can do this and they offered me a special um uh special bonus bonus we can work saturday night from eight to four o'clock in the morning and uh at the end it costs only 100 000 euros and uh so after work i went over to uh dortmund one and a half hour full speed uh in the night we sit down and reproduce this on betamax so that we can get some copies on vhs and uh when it was ready i have not heard the name beta max this was this is some more ages some more power uh than the vhs but um if you copy vhs maybe most of the world have uh have uh had these copies copies of the copies it's only snow but i asked the people how many can you sell and they said well if we produce something like this 100 120 you can sell the rest will be copied yeah so i just uh did some mathematics 120 100 000 it costs so i must make a price of 367 euro george marks this was a lot yeah and at the end i um sold double and about 100 000 euros were left and this was very good at this time because i started my practice it was a good investment for my dentist practice yeah and um well my father at this time my father sold his company and he gave me half a million uh and i paid it back they had a very good retiring money every year every um and so i could build up a very modern practice and this was my way where i with the dogs well afterwards uh that came up the computer and uh the digital things and fifi luneberg everybody knows him i think yes um he uh told me helmut there is a guy in the school um he's a belgium champion in ring sport we must look there so we went there and it was the same like with you in in australia we we just that story i have to tell we just arrived and stand in the back and bart was talking talking talking talking and so i just asked one question are you the helmut reiser that yes and then it was love on the first side right two weeks later we met for training and then it happened that we did

the revolution in in sv that we said this breeding mafia we must split off we must make democratic and um heinrich messler who's now president of sv came 1990 i think it was to my house and said helmut we must make revolution we must blow off this mafia uh where they uh chase the rabbits in their own stable and um we must split off this power and it was a big mistake i said yes he said you have the the working dog people we have half of the breeding dog people and then i thought this would be done in two years no it was after 10 years it was still the mafia yeah and everybody tries to get a little bit of the cake and it was not successful but um what was good when his brother peter messler overtook the president and it's so funny all of these people who were in power if it's coaster if it's flavor if it's herman martin if it's the other martin when they were kicked out they die very quick in cancer so you're dramatic stress like with my dog vargo right and uh what happened everybody's watching them in this way and suddenly this one is president and they are standing always in this direction yeah and they couldn't stand this the only one who was a really strong and the only one who was a really strong and honorable person absolutely without knowledge was hans glück yeah with him i had a very nice experience uh when i criticized uh martin says you have to talk with him and we had a good talk and i realized this is a honorable person but absolutely on the wrong position as a breeding uh breed as a training ward of sv right wow so but well um where did i stop with the with the development of sv so bart uh we made friends we made discussions and then it happened that peter messler the brother became president and then it happened that we have this big um there was a big event like some big two thousand people and two thousand people in the stadium of betzenberg yeah i remember and there was a speech of um bart of me of gunther diegel vivi lüneberg and it was the time when there comes a new animal law and we invited dr baumgartner he was a man on his table the uh the animal law was worked out and we invited him for a speech i have this still on my computer and we worked with spike collar with electric collar we demonstrated our fifi demonstrated me demonstrated the training and after the seminar we gave him his microphone and asked him we want the feedback what do you think about our training comparing to the animal law and i have this still in my computer he said he didn't see anything in these two days which is not compatible with the animal law and he saw a lots of

responsibility to to the dogs and he wished that everybody acts this responsible with the dogs uh like he saw here with us yeah wow and uh well afterwards they tried to kick us uh uh they tried to jürgen rickson come up and make always reports from the winner and when helmut könig uh from afalterbach won the world the the bundesieger and he was asked by jürgen do you use electric collar and he says of course the world they want to cancel his ziga title yeah his champion title so that was pretty early already and then i told helmut helmut if they want to kick you out i'm on your side they must kick me out also and i have already won several times again in the court against csv and uh so we went together and uh we had a young dog with 10 months i had a young dog with 10 months we had the party for my bundesliga and he came there and i said well in two years we participate to each other and he started training his dog erica went over hey come on you can't do the i will do this because he struck too much this was funny but um with this uh dog what was the name of the dog um from erica she had a very good dog this was two years old and they couldn't when the dog get the arm they couldn't get the dog out of the arm um name so hans and erica came to my house i said hey it's possible every dog gets out yeah how you look i said hans uh let's go in the visa meadow i will show you so i work the dog i drop the arm and this dog in his arm like crazy yeah so i have this um it was um um not the enotech it was um with a stick tritonics all the treat all treatronics and i just put the button and the dog more and i just kept on stayed on it and well after gray comes blue and he went out and are released so half a year later she uh qualified to the world championship with this dog uh it was very good on bundesliga and he was used for breeding all the time and produced a lot of good puppies so now comes this that they want to uh blame helmut könig because he tells the truth about electric collar and i said hans if it goes to the court i will tell the truth believe me yeah i really had no idea that this is going so far back they take this away yeah from from helmut or you get your answer so it went to the court and i was really pissed off by the area president of baden-baden uh this koch

uh koch was the most uh he wants to know everything so and the friends from baden-baden trained already in in the stadium which was forbidden when the bundesliga was there and he was standing of course in front and jürgen ritzi says hey someone is coming uh and he said someone told to you jürgen ritzi uh someone is coming we must put away the electric collars and um jürgen said hey no no we do this and they trained with electric collar and there were some of my friends who told me the truth and koch was standing there and in the court he has to testify by god that he has seen nothing and then i said yeah and he was he was out of order so i was really angry that someone lies in this way uh for the um uh for the loyalty loyalty yeah yeah and this is still the same uh everywhere where you go uh there are no characters yeah they they i hate this yes it's very difficult i hate this yeah well and hans of course was afterwards very pissed off with me because of course we won yeah um when the judge realized that they all lie and they all uh don't tell the truth um and this is the same with uh still yeah when you have a judge meeting uh with uh the vdh and uh there is also christian bremer and says now after the meeting we must talk about this and then comes advice we shall do it uh without talking about this but um and then i said hey hey hey hey i'm a dentist i don't feel my fool my patience to earn money or something like this i'm authentic and when i do this i can stay for this christian's been in the office for a very long time it's time that she leaves she destroys in the moment more than uh than she makes good she is very intelligent she is very competent in the social uh thing and everything is order but when they only uh try to dominate and to use power and this against the interests of the people in the sport yeah something goes wrong but it's almost i don't know if it starts in germany i don't know if it's human nature but i think it's all over i mean you you look at fci and i know people will watch it and and i i know i'm speaking the truth so take it you know do what you want with it but this is a problem we don't commission in fci they really don't look for the interest and benefits of the people that train dogs they just bend over to any political power as long as they can do their little games and there i i it's a common sense you are elected to represent and defend us so we can train dogs right but it's i it's almost your thing everywhere this is your thing that's not their thinking correct the organization

is more important than the people because this gives power and money and it's all about power and money and that's where it's the wrong organization i guess but we will get to this i i have to tell you this story because we said rude an hour a few times now and this was the time when i realized you know how you went and you you there was a moment in your career as a trainer that you knew that you actually are good i remember the time because i was just training i mean i i started obviously in eastern europe with all russian military style of training is german you know we had these funny sleeves the white things that they you know you know what i thought yes yes yes that's what i grew up with then in belgium the moment i went there it was like the ring sport which was so captivating but then i got into schutzhund and then i moved to the states and i still did not i i mean it was just pure intuition i qualified for a fci world championship it was 1993 i believe in finland and i go and i do billions very funny story so i'm sitting in the stadium on the benches on the bleachers you know and i'm like why are we waiting what what's going on and then they announced my name like i should be on the field and i run to the car i bring my dog it was a female malinois a crazy story but to make it quick i get 93 points no 94 points but it's under hans rudenauer and it was i i believe it was like maybe protection obedience obedience obedience obedience and in a world championship and i placed 12th and i had no even a helper it was all just me figuring things out just pure intuition the next year he comes and he judges the german shepherd championship and i think it was in california i i i think it was the the volrats the organized the championship and he gave me 98 in protection and everybody respected him as he was the the training director of you know so that it was very funny to when you say that he actually wasn't that great of a trainer but in my eyes at the time getting that score from him it was that approval that i i actually good at at what i'm doing so it was it was very interesting you know no he he he understood dog sport absolutely but he was not able to practice himself the the good one in the practice was erica but this without well but it became worse hans was was quite good uh when when hans overtook from gluck i was so happy and i told him hans now we must create our sport and the first is we fought so long for good working dogs yeah and we have already now the split that the show people do this show part and we have this working dog people who

breed their own but fritz bieler rich me said well i tried it uh nice and good and i won but either the show people came for breeding and not the working dog key uh people came from breeding so with one with one dog he was uh he was healed by this idea of nice and good because from we always give this message uh the result is no nice not good when you bring it together right yeah and um this was um something uh where they split off uh these two populations and uh peter messler was the first who agreed as a president of us we we have two populations yeah how long ago was that it's gotta be like two south uh when did we have late 90s maybe what in the in when we had kaiserslautern when was kaiserslautern it i think it was the beginning of the 90s yeah i i wouldn't know you see i'm young i still live in the future not in the past that's how it should when i'm talking now about the past i i i uh forget so many things ask fritz bieler or fifi luni bag they can tell you exactly everything but i i'm looking always still forward that's that's how it should be though yeah therefore we have book therefore we created that book that you wrote is what changed for me it was just this one like wow okay there is a whole different way to look at things which i wasn't exposed at the time it kaiserslautern was this point where we have already this digital thing jrgen rickson filmed this and we produce drive changing uh then comes bart and me we produce this contact how to use electric color proper and then bart tried to make it official and lost in the court that's when it kind of get yeah that's when the pressure really came on i think after that contact video or no or it was no no no no no no this was it doesn't come from outside it comes uh when there was this animal law yeah well short story before um osla called me and say helmut they will produce a new animal law and there is a professor in the university university of gießen he is a boss of the group who makes information to the politics so i met i went to gießen we met i met him he was a hunter and when i told him uh what is so super with electric color better than with a mechanical i said i know i know i know i'm a hunter he came he went in this side room came back with the x-ray and showed me an x-ray with a uh of a dog with uh full with this metal in the ass yeah i know that we shoot the dog when they pellets with these pellets uh when they should stop hunting yeah and i know that electric color is better but if you want to reach something you must uh make a group uh to make lobbyismus and in this group you must take all the people

the hunters the guarding people the club people for sure and the veterinarian and so we get the official veterinarian for germany um and um when i contact the hunting people um professor wunderlich he was very smart uh guy i said hey uh mr reiser i tried it it was impossible to glue this group together if you can do this i do all the work from my uh uh uh from my hunting club it was a very big club germany and uh so this worked i glue them together hans hans wunderlich organized everything and we made meetings and we make uh 10 points and so we came in uh with our upon at this time uh to the politicals and we worked two years in bonn uh in the ministerium uh out the rules for dog training inclusive electric collar so and we nearly finished and then comes a problem in germany uh the the black uh party at the csu cdu uh lost and the green and the green and the red ones overtake overtook the government yeah yeah and then everything was finished because they are these not ignoring everything and still nowadays with the energy and uh uh well i i we had good people there uh first uh dr baumgartner then dr krieger and then overtook dr polton i called dr polton every three months come on make ready let's finish this we need this and and and and over 10 years and nothing happened yeah after 10 years he told me well uh next year i'm no longer there this will overtake uh mrs something schulte or something like this and i said oh congratulations so you also uh sit this out yeah no no no i said yes absolutely i said dr reiser i will tell you the truth this is this is such a hot iron no political touch this because he doesn't get votes yeah and therefore they do nothing so i contact one time this young new lady who overtook this resort and then i said okay i can forget it she asked me everything i said you have everything in the basement in your in your in your uh in your storage yeah uh and you start here from the beginning yeah and then i stopped it and um so nothing worked out in the meantime i had already my court decision that nobody uh can can forbid me to use it because i'm competent in this as an individual this was at the time when they tried to um to beat uh helmut koenig when he said yes i use it yeah and then helmut koenig manfred schalber eugen ecker and me we went to court to make a decision that we are allowed to use it and we won after three and a half years we won yeah because the judge was quite fair and quite uh interesting in this and he realized we have the

knowledge and we are responsible for our work and then he made a decision this was a honor president of the oberlandesgericht in munich yeah and so we went to this to the sv and at once they changed it it's no longer forbidden uh it's just um and it's still the same decision it's no longer forbidden in sv this has to uh they have to blame the people on the private courts yeah because if they would not have changed if you would have forbid this everybody could apply for the license or license or something for the license because if someone can get it another one can get it yeah it should be and uh so uh this would be very expensive for sv and uh they were clever enough uh to stop with this uh that it's forbidden but then came bart want to make it official lost in the court but it's only a decision for this particular situation yeah and the the the court said uh that it's forbidden and every area can make a different decision yeah they all don't do it i tried it in my area and forget it it's nobody cares about this and well the official uh the unofficial way in vdhs it's forbidden but if you someone makes it uh make it that nobody sees this because without this this is this is a cure this again one from for me it's one point in my life like uh when vago gets sick i said it's no way to treat the dog in this way and when i see this breeding uh with the cow daquina i have to say this is wrong yeah and when i broke the teeth of the of a very good dog i said this is wrong what we do and nowadays i say it's wrong that we judge in a way that we really uh put the animal in in such a stress situation that he has no normal life and this is only possible with spike collar and electric collar because the advantage of the electric collar is evident yeah there is a research in the university of handover uh this brings less stress less than spike polar and less than uh uh talking talking talking yes yeah because it's so clear for the dog because it's in a very good timing and when you have the seminar timing is all yeah and if you and and the the other good thing is um emotion body depends always on the situation if you press a button of one it's always one if you press the button of 10 it's always 10. right and it's much more predictable how you place it from the timing and from the dose yeah and nobody wants to kill a dog or to to to destroy his dog they want points yeah and uh therefore uh in the moment where you we had this seminar the first you teach uh classic conditioning a voice with mechanic that he does

the work and then uh with the electric you have uh only the option for conflict but when he knows the way out of conflict then you have a 100 percent success maybe 99 percent success when you press a button and then you can separate from uh body and then it's much more clearer for the body to read the body language because you don't have to move with arms with hands and all the uh all uh the body gives it information if you have disciplined body yeah and this we have to teach the people uh and of course you can teach it only if the dog is trained proper and then you teach the people how to use a body language and it's impossible if you if you move all the time with leashes and with hands but if the dog has learned and you can give him a clear picture with the body the only uh report for plus and minus for yes and no is press the bottom yeah and it's on a level where the dog has never a pain correct it's just a it's just a help for the guidance and of course uh if you give a knife or a scapelle in the hand of an ape it's different if i have this in uh surgery in my dentist practice right but for everything you can get a license you can get a license for a gun you can like get a license for uh shooting with a with a with a trunk you can get a license uh for uh uh putting bombs uh uh from from a plane uh for everything you can license yeah and that's not and you cannot get a license to uh for uh for an electric collar uh to to work a dog in a most effective and most uh animal protecting way correct this is so and this is something what pissed me off yeah that uh this emotion this ignoring uh this not asking competent people um but even when you look at all the studies like all the studies that point to the electric or shock colors whatever you want to call it and they say we should ban them all of those studies okay let's say not all of them but at least the majority that are good studies they all point out that when done correctly the dog has recovers immediately from fear there there is no stress and the end result of what has been taught is successful and all of those studies point out to what happens if you just randomly start to push the button as you said the ape getting the right well that's not the right excuse to ban something because some and we know that it's just nature it's just in our planet we there is we approach something that we like and we avoid something that we don't this is genetically baked in our dna and even if we as much as we don't like

it we know how to respond to it and the electric color when done correctly as we say it's uh it really cannot be cannot be abused when it's done correctly it's a very safe tool i know i know that you can make crazy things with this and create and culting an animal yeah and so you can without it but uh from the beginning when we uh when we uh make influence into the politicals we always um said uh this must be um competent yeah and someone should get a license and i and i said hey uh i said to mrs bremer at this time hey there's so much money there's millions of money you can earn yeah if you make this uh seminars some course you give a license exactly and you give a license for 200 uh deutschmark yeah uh thousand people will will will get it this is 200 000 uh euros and even more yeah everybody has this we we we we figured out how many um are sold in germany they were already 30 years ago uh several millions yeah yeah yeah and uh so ignoring all this is um is so terrible and of course there is interest i forbid all dog sport forbid all dogs forbid all uh working dogs yeah and uh the majority have these uh pets and uh they don't understand what we do right yeah so we have no lobby this is our problem and the problem is that our um official organizations they don't vote for our interests what is the result ivan we must do it our own this is the only thing this is the only thing what you can do i tried already to overtake as a breed warden in sv and i tried everything believe me i have my experience these organizations like the soviet union like the ddr they die their own this is the only thing that i have to do this is the only thing that i have to do i had no chance to do what you have to do for maintaining a good working dog which is create a cookbook how to train breed good dogs select them and bring the good ones back to the to the uh to the uh people to the breeding yeah so this is a circle what we have to do and you cannot do this in fci you cannot do this in vdh and you cannot do this in sv and this was the reason where we say we need a little island where we can do this and i'm so happy that we have this little island in rsb 2000 we have you saw what we have in the method for the training we don't have this only for not only for tracking we have this for obedience we have this for protection we have this for helper workshop yeah and we have a breeding system which is better and respects all the problems this champion breeding kills every race in in 60 years says uh says dr wachtel and uh so there is options for heterosphigitis without cross there is option

with diversity and uh this is all something and our president albert sproy he's he's professional in this uh and uh he has uh the statistics of this this is so interesting and now we have in our club the mallis with that's what i was gonna say that now it's with matthias doegl and matthias doegl has the best infrastructure for dogs better than vdh better than fci yeah so we have everything what is necessary uh to uh do something for our interests yeah fci will not do this fdh will not do this sv does not do we only have the problem that they have a 100 years old infrastructure and the big circus and the people want to go in the big circus in the world championship fci in the world championship wsv and they don't come to us because they want to perform in the big circus and not in the small circus we have and this is our this is our only problem but believe me i was only my problem was only over 55 years in dog sport that i was always five years ten years too early and we just can't wait they kill all themselves when they when they don't change they kill all themselves hopefully they do it's been taking too long you know the question is uh if they give up if there is still the possibility for our sport this is the only question right maybe we are the last generation who can do the sport but i'm here i work and i i have standing and i still busy uh to try to make it maintaining yeah if not we have done everything it's the only thing what i can say to this point yeah i think um i mean we know fci right now will uh the stick it will be forbidden from january it's in the it's decided but we have the surprise we have the shots on trial and in our world championship we have the stick we don't have to obey this and even and even uh with the stick we have the stick they asked the government and the government said already um it's no problem if you touch the dog with this soft stick yeah but but in the for house i'm going to horse on what is this uh they are obedient uh before it's necessary yes they they try to please before and give up all our interests this is this is incredible and this is the nice thing if you have your own little island where you can um make you can do what you have necessary you have your own trial yeah correct you have your own breeding uh of course you have to obey the bigger rules but uh you must not be always so devoted to every what they decide if it's totally incompetent and contraproductive yeah this i do the same in my practice you see i do many things uh without payment

because it's productive for the patient yeah the rules are different and you should not you should not okay then i do it without payment i think once the i mean i really the sport's gonna die if we follow those leaders and and not and they not protecting and defending the sport and then maybe this is the time when place like rsv will become the the solution i have um i have the hope that with our young people albert and matthias they are younger than i am they have the same power yeah they are very intelligent and uh in some things i they are better than i am so and i hope um that there is a next generation right yeah what i mean you know what the you for sure know but like because of my school and and certifying dog trainers and you know going through my school i have i have people that come uh to do the school from germany and from different countries in europe and they have like one of the benefits of school like this is that i don't have a problem teaching them everything from punishment to negative reinforcement to positive reinforcement different it's all good but it is so frustrating to hear when somebody let's say graduates from my school they have a very well-rounded education they understand just as we keep talking in the seminars and everywhere you have you avoid and you approach it's fundamental fundamental thing when they those trainers when they in germany go to try to certify with the government they have to pass a written and practical test and in those tests there is specific questions and you have to you you will not get certified you will not become a professional dog trainer in germany if you say that punishment positive punishment or negative reinforcement or any kind of use of aversive or compulsion positive punishment can be better in certain circumstances they cannot become a professional dog trainer and that becomes a problem because now they they have to check that box and now you have a big number of professional dog trainers that are checking that box so now it becomes even harder to fight it because if you decide to fight it you can they they will come back at you and say well there is all this very famous successful trainers that also agree with us it's such a loop i mean there is no way out so how would you deal with that with rsv like how how is that gonna uh the best is you stay away from the uh but this is this is can you stay away this is everywhere oh for sure this is everywhere in germany in this way uh there is a narrative uh what you have to say and what have

to you you have to think look at this yeah yeah you have to see the moment look at covet yeah there are so important people who really have people who really have knowledge and bring the argues but they are uh nazis they are schwobler they are these they are this and from the people who are in power they ask only these people who make yeah yeah and talk talk what they want to hear and uh you see character is something you find as beggar and in the um academics but you also find there and there uh the people who are just egoistic and they sell their uh their mother for money right and uh so character is something has nothing to do with with knowledge but now it becomes i i think i i have no idea where what's what's gonna happen in the states they always are there always every moment they're knocking at that door trying to crack down and ban wrong colors and electric this is like a a mission for them and they have they have very good ammunition for the for the simple mind that today almost everybody functions this way nobody has time or desire to actually do their own research and figure things out for themselves they everybody listens to it's a come in and out so when when in the states this conversation comes immediately well all of europe already knows better we are behind all science says and we are behind and all of that is but nobody has the time to listen to to and and fact check and it's a very easy it's like well are you good or are you bad person oh i'm good person well then oh very difficult to fight it uh i went with religion and with ideology we have in the past lots of experience you see oh of course in the middle age the christians killed the people uh uh in uh we were burning women because they were witches in germany yeah yeah and in germany we have the nazis this was just ideology now we have the green people yes it's just etiology they destroy the whole country yeah by ideology and people are aware of it but are afraid to go against because and if you go against then you're and then you're labeled as in our sport it's the same the animal protectors yeah they are uh ideolog they're ideal 100 and and these people put always so much energy in their interest yes and the people who work and are on the basic they don't have the time for this they they they do it and uh so it is like it is we have no lobby yeah in the dog sport but it's a it's a whole uh problem in the society yeah we have a fun society and it uh and uh nobody learns to discipline you see last uh last

months i talked to a friend he's a teacher and uh i talked about the situation that i said hey i cannot get employees any longer these young people you can forget the half stupid people make go to the university and the totally stupid people you cannot use and all these they just can't do this they learn no uh they learn no a goodie no no songs in the school they don't learn uh what is goodie no uh rhymes something yeah like and they and they are missing something to remember because they can get everything look very quick on google yeah and there is a development that the character of the people changes by the situation we have and they say he told me helmut the worst thing in our school is uh that they did digital the schools because the uh the young people uh are not trained to remember something right and um so uh we will be strange yeah we will have we will have problems with this and uh uh there is a way in the society uh it changed a lot see i'm not i'm not so conservative i was always a progressive but in the way how it changed now i see this uh in our deutschland that's a green people uh imagine 80 percent didn't want them they have 20 percent of the votes yeah and to get the power yeah they uh make agreements to everything and then this guy gets a minister uh office and can ruin the whole uh uh industry in germany why is this possible i don't understand they they uh they should not have uh this is a this is a a lack of the democratic that they just glue together and they promise something and when they want to be in power they make agreements agreements agreements just to stay in power and and so are so stupid people you see money most of them uh they have never finished uh a work a job yeah they have no job they are if they would not be political they would have been unemployed people and this is something um um where ideologie comes in the front ground and like in our dog sport yeah ideologie comes in the front ground uh the lobbyismus of the ideologen are so strong right and we workers are quite try to do the work the best way we give and we don't realize that they kill us more and more and more and more so who knows i think we leave that alone but look at look at uh look at the history all these all these societies who are based on air right blow off yeah they cannot last for sure they cannot last they cannot change sometimes sometimes it was necessary to destroy everything with the wall i don't hope that this happens we are very pretty close to it but i know but i don't hope that this works let

me change the subject it's not frustrating i wanna i wanna say some like this story about the one the one story i have to tell everybody this story i it's one of my favorite ones when when we met in australia you know like because i well i i don't know i i'm i i'm i believe that i kind of met you a few other times but i don't think we ever got that opportunity to really be face to face and australia i was going i was giving a seminar and i was in brisbane and and tomorrow i'm gonna about to make a seminar and i was on you know it was one of my first seminars giving like outside the country and the people that were hosting me they're like well what do you think if helmut reiser comes to the seminar and i just couldn't even make sense of what they are asking me i'm like what what do you mean and then i to find out that you were you know just visiting and whatever you were doing i wasn't even sure and what do i say i cannot say no and then i'm thinking man if helmut reiser is gonna come to watch me give a seminar what i'm gonna do because at the time it was uh you know like i i always from again like from my times in belgium when i was like okay there is belgian ring and it was so interesting and it was just learning a lot of different styles of training and then i got the book and then i got like a copy of a copy of a copy of the vhs tape much no yes and then i listened to you talk and i'm like man there is like a whole different way to look at dog training and drives and and and reinforcements and everything it was it was one of the most exciting times in my dog training career i cannot not remember this you know then there was the big time where i really actually got to hear you live and that was that was 94 san jose egon vorrat martin dean calderon like de las segas it was like the the hardcore super enthusiastic and very knowledgeable people that did the sport it was the world cup soccer which is not so important you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know very early and i'm so happy but i cannot be happy because everybody around me is there was no bulgarian yes ah and then this happened to me in brazil when brazil lost zero to seven oh that was big i was at copacabana what do you do i i know what you felt yes yes oh and so then i remember but this was the time you were still there was no colors yet

but the volrots had this big white board and we had all this bleachers and we sat down and you just made you just went on for like a whole day of i mean we were like forever just listening and listening and just like a sponges you know and then we take a break and then we talk amongst each other it was just so amazing and next thing you know a few years later actually quite a few years later well what do you think if helmet riser is gonna be on your seminar so i'm like i say okay and i the next day i come out and i'm like okay i mean i just have to just do what i do and words are not coming out i'm i'm now in front of everybody ready to go now now you were good and then you make a big impression believe me yeah he's trying to be incognito he's he's like okay i'm not looking at him i'm not making eye contact he should start yeah i try to be incognito because we just were passing through we want to go to the barrier reef and luce says uh there is uh there is um ivan and uh i said okay we put this hat on uh sunglasses and just go yeah but the bus bush drums were quicker it was it was amazing and then of course once i got going and then and then of course you're you know i think i don't know was it a break or was it something with the tracking and you kind of came in and you you really helped me recover and and do my thing you know in a very kind of subtile way and um but yeah that was that was one of the times then then we did the uh what was it called the one that the money tournament that you won it was uh the was in new jersey's masters 2008 master 2008 and and um that was a day like things like this was a good idea but never really ended up going more than one time well uh because um um carlos went sick he got cancer and uh he tried to do and already i already applied again but uh then they quit because they couldn't do this yeah so for those that listen and don't know what we're talking about there was a 2008 there was some conversations and some ideas to make igp or shoot one by invitation for money price i don't believe it was good i think it was 10 000 or something or 15 yeah i mean 10 10 i put to the next place then you did yes that's what you did he was so generous he's like i cannot do this i will split it i felt uncomfortable with this yes but that that was a very good idea and this was one of the times when and i had a i had a show german shepherd total show german shepherd from brazil i went i gave a seminar and they bring this dog and i'm like and they're like what do you think and i'm like i don't know so i work him on my car

i really like him can i buy him and now they're like oh he's really good you can't buy him and anyway i ended up getting him but um i did not know how much the um how do i say this like even even between the working dog big name uh influential churches and communities they were even today they are very um prejudiced towards oh it's a show shepherd he cannot possibly have what it takes and which we gotta be able to look more openly to this but that was a different story what i what the reason i'm bringing masters is because it was it was all german shepherds and for some reason tracking and i don't think it was that easy tracking but all of the dogs were very skillful at tracking and we were all watching each other and appreciating the the skills of the handlers and the dogs and and it was beautiful um it was a good organization yeah it was a super tournament yes i wish they do that extreme extreme uh um conditions yeah the heat and everything yes yes but then you see a dog with very good understanding and good ethics working through problems it was some and and because we all we all were somewhat on the same level we were able to appreciate it what every other person was doing i think it was a very special tournament and it's very unfortunate that they don't have this anymore um i i want to ask you help our work how do you feel how do you feel about people that live way out of having access especially in the states doing certain things by themselves there is always this like how much and what can you do by yourself as far as protection training with your dog yeah this is something what i also suffer i don't have a good helper at my house yeah in in my uh around and uh in the past it was different i i educated lots of helper but at the end nobody is there and people come and i do the helper work uh with my own dogs you see what i do in two three schutzteens takes me with my dog one and a half year and uh because if i let someone do the work it goes one step forward two steps backwards yeah and then of course one thing is um good um if the dog has a special age if the gray is already there it's good i can work it my own you know uh but uh when you bring up a dog then it's difficult because um personal knowledge damps aggression with a mully it's not that problem because as a mully you have to work on blue and green if you go to the if you go too early to the gray uh then uh either the chain the tail is under the chest or the head helpers and handles in hospital yeah that's the danger

actually because when you say that it's easy with a mully that's a real danger and it happens all the time because the mully looks like it is so young offer so much that the helper is like oh i can do so much with it and before they even realize they've burned the dog they kind of pushed it too far when we talk about these two races uh we must point out there is a mully there's a shepherd most overlap yeah and the breeding of the shepherd goes nowadays more and more uh to the mully type yeah and the mully breeding uh with the good people they try to bring in uh better nerves so yes what what is it what is the difference i have a i have a talk about this uh and normally when i do a schutzin seminar i talk uh more about this uh problem here in this tracking seminar i i blocked it out um the mully has a lower threshold uh has a very nice green and a very nice blue yeah it's high adaptive behavior and if you do something he tries to please yeah and um with much activity but much activity much activity better body quick movement quick changes uh and um so this is the advantage of the mully and as i said in the seminar when i i'm kidding about this should be happiness in the work now sport is never happiness spot is limit yeah and mully is on the limit uh is typical i'm talking about the typical of course uh is on the limit when he has a conflict in the green you know and uh you saw this uh here with the young dog we worked here you just move a little bit with the with the uh with the prey and then the dog is hold in the harness and he starts show gray for the conflict yeah so and um um it's for me it was interesting when i saw the training with matias um with his friends and his mollies they have quite clever they start from the beginning uh they're working the gray but not connecting with the biting yeah so they work the gray they stand there make different attraction and the mully gets used to this like this young dog here as i work he starts with it with his stick and goes out and wants to bite the stick and when you put the green in the front ground yeah you can the dog gets used to this attraction so and what they do this was so smart and so clever they just work the gray make a short break minimum three seconds take the the sleeve and then they start only with the green and make the biting with the green yeah and so they separate at once uh it's not the work you should do with the shepherd uh because um you need the limit then mali is on the limit if he doesn't get the prey and if you do a little bit with this stick and so then he's over the load and goes out and and

isn't hectic yeah and tell me tell me just a little bit quickly about what what you mean by limit just so so everybody understands what what we are saying gray and blue has the same attraction it's the loadability yeah it's a conflict yeah if if you put the um put a high dose on compulsion on the dog it goes to blue yeah okay you increase the load the load the load the loadness and then it asks for and then possibly switching aggressive and when you do more it goes to avoidance yeah yeah so uh and the limit talking about what the nerves can hold on load load load loadability what do you say sure sure yeah yeah and um this is something when you go to this border yeah you have most activity because the conflict brings the gray and the gray brings the power so now when you work with the with the typical shepherd yeah you have to bring in the gray uh that the dog goes to the border of the nerves and then you channel this in the in the green and with the mulley you don't have to do so much you are not allowed to do so much right if you hit him hard he goes out yeah and if he is overloaded he's sensitized yeah and then he has much more fear he learns quick you see the mulley came up because we have so good techniques in the past where we had no knowledge how to train a dog yeah that could not work you needed dogs with much resistance very stable that can take a lot nowadays everybody wants they thought we want a good dog what is a good dog nobody can answer because uh these guys who said we want the good dog and the strong one who has resistance yeah give such a dog to someone nowadays yeah this dog bites the handler and is put to death this is uh there are so few people who really can handle this old style of dog with a big resistance nowadays with our good techniques with our super learning uh deals if you do you get positive reinforcement and and and and yeah um we uh can handle very good with these dogs with lower nerves and good threshold this is what um volker riedel old friend of mine uh was a judge in the malinas yeah yeah yeah i met him in the 70s already he came with his colors and colors didn't bark and we and i said hey everybody drop every dog barks and uh and uh so we have long long story so uh when we join now with the malis in the rsv 2000 we have to overwork our matrix so that we can um define the mali so i went to a folker to tria and uh worked it out and folker once told me helmut you criticize our malis because the low nerves we know we know the advantage of this okay and i said okay all right right yeah if you have this

uh see i always preferred in the past uh dogs you have the ddr system five in the middle yeah then you have uh to the three and to the uh six seven eight what's that i i preferred always the four dog because when you teach proper and you have lower nerves you have more power yeah if you are not so clever in the teaching you better have dogs with uh better nerves because you put in more conflicts but that's also very critical for breeding to do to do intelligent breeding that you're looking in 10 and 20 years in the future but i'm super surprised that you actually like this is like this one through five five and four and four and that that's what i grew up that was my because it was in germany in the eastern european block and everything so how was that even how how was in west germany that came was that appreciated this kind of we put it in our we put it in our rsv 2000 in the matrix when we do the talent middle five is always the best but we only have uh uh up two criterias up three up one and down three down one pretty the same up three up one is more down three down one is less and so we with this we rate 60 anatomic parameters and 20 mental parameters this is our talent and with our talent we make a short bringing up protection work from a good lcc who understand this they always uh this talent shows um the audience how you should bring up a dog in protection the dog gets the advantage that he gets a good bringing up the handler gets the information that how he shall handle like i showed here today what is pressing what is champagne finger and how do you stabilize the gray how do you stabilize the blue how do you stabilize the green and so it's a win-win situation for a dog for handler and a win-win situation for the club we got the these parameters of the anatomy and of the mental power and we put it all in a in a database so that we can uh go from phenotype selection what we have done over 100 years uh with this information to the genotype selection when we have this data no other club has these data and um and there is something in the in the odds group they earn money they sell coffee and cake and everything and it's an easy entrance to the dog and there is no stress for the handler because he cannot lose even if he gets no point he earns one now two matings with his dog and this is very good entrance for breeding because with 14 months you can breed so when does the when does the female get in season maybe 15 months so with 16 months i can check my female what is her biological uh option and if you rape her for mating and then you have to um

have at the end one puppy uh opened with a with a with a kaiserschnitt with a yes the surgery yeah then you don't have to put money and time in uh in training um because this is nothing for for breeding yeah but when i had my inlay yeah with 16 months uh she uh uh got the first mating and i said oh she will kill everything she's so far out she's so crazy and i did nothing she was she stands uh there was a mating and uh i didn't care for anything i came in the kennel there were four puppies i came back uh there were six puppies at the end there were ten puppies and she was so carefully with the puppies and so i said okay this is something for breeding and i uh now i put time money energy because from the biting from everything she is talented and this is good for the breeders you have an early entrance and you can check the biological uh potential of this animal and our breeders for example uh hans bordenmeyer he is very creative in this uh he likes us to have a quick uh sequence of the generations to see what's coming out especially when you make an outcross right yeah yeah breeding is uh so we are very we are very smart not only in training also in breeding you know dmc also you i think they also have this numeric yes but too complicated they made it i don't know what i did but for i mean i think they're coming back to breeding more stable dogs but i think the system they designed at like the early 2000s they make very business they created very nervy like malinois as we know it's it's already very active we actually on purpose need to look for a stable primitive kind of dog to constantly to come back in and i think they just ended up more and more to train ability and active and train ability and it turned into to dogs that cannot lay down calmly i and i think it was partially because of that um curung that they developed and i don't know what it happened it's not so smart what they do uh they get more and more problems by homozygality uh you see um the the the the ants are all the same and with this you create a homozygality with all the fitness uh problems you get and uh so uh the way they act to select always very hard you lose the wideness of the base and the wideness of the genetic pool is a very important part for the healthiness of the of of a of a race yes because we are not thinking about just this one leader we gotta think in 10 years and 15 years and 20 years we this was a very nice discussion when we had our uh qualification for vdh there was knut and there was albert our president and knut fuchs yeah wow and

include and uh of course albert i have to carry home again because knut is much more stable in drinking but it was an endless discussion and it was very with two very different meanings knut says he wants to produce puppies you can use and you can use you can use and albert thinks more in genetic and whiteness of genetic pool and they struggled and struggled and struggled and struggled yeah it was interesting i i just listened uh and i didn't take part in this discussion but there are two things um two sides of the coin yeah and it was very interesting when they struggled for the truth and they were very good friends because i know don't know how many bottles of uh uh what kind were they drank no but that's in a way that's what's stimulating and that's how we grow it's important i mean when you think just as you said in your way back in history how how you develop that's the same like we do need this these discussions are important yes if we all agree yeah there is no evolution no more yeah we have to challenge it we always have to challenge it which goes back to the force free and the electric colors and it's one thing to say well this is very bad idea we have a better solution but when you say that you have a better solution and you cannot openly come forward and show us because if there is a better solution who wouldn't take it the problem is the problem is you can stay on four levels in your life the lowest level is your unconscious incompetent so this is where i first heard this was you talking about this and i i believe it was sanjose's work i learned this in in australia from luch the guy was in australia that you told me yeah maybe that's where luch uh i have this from luch there are four levels in life you can rely on the lowest levels you're unconscious incompetent if you are there stay there everything is in order happy place yeah happy place no stress yes so and luch told me if you want to teach someone something you must bring him on level two that he is conscious incompetent this is not nice no this is stress pressure then he works on himself and he becomes conscious competent unless you quit many will quit unless you quit and then you have one problem it's still stress because uh when i teach dog training and the people know what to do they're always one second too late yeah and it's not yet automatic but if you're talented if you work on it i tell this the same to my employees my practice you can get level four like my anna is she didn't think it goes all automatically yes but she can think if there is a problem

and then you are unconscious competent yeah and this is this is as good as level one one yeah because it's stress free and you are happy and this i talked to my employee in the practice when i have the finger in the mouth of the professor from the from the police academy and very smart man i took them out and then he told me and then there is a level five i said hey what's this i don't know i said level five these are competent people which are unwilling to learn these are the worst and you find in these um in the charge of the clubs and everywhere these people who are in the power position and they ignore a different meaning what we talked about yeah they just get information from the people uh they want which agree with this and um this is there is one more level for me i again like ever since i heard you telling me that impact in australia i always use it and i actually it's it's part of my it's almost like my introduction to my dog trainer school i actually talk quite a bit about this because it's so important um but i came to to another one like for me i have a different level five where it's when there is that point that becomes an art where you can break the rules and you can paint like picasso that just makes no sense but then you go wow and i think certain people are capable but not everybody and one of the the big things as as a dog trainer is to go through that level one the oblivious stage oh i'm gonna be a world champion i'm gonna be whatever it's such a good place right but you have to stick through the hard times the two and the three you have to if you have to and and then hopefully with with good commitment and and good uh uh surrounding community you you grow to level four it's i don't think it's hard to be level four if you don't give up and you have the support system of course talent there is no we cannot argue about talent like i cannot paint i cannot sing i can train dogs and i think sometimes people go into dog sports and i think that's not because they believe they're good but because they suck somewhere else in their life and they think that this will be the place where they can excel knowing that's the thing knowing that they are not good at it but somehow i i i don't know it's a difficult when you when you give seminars this is always my problem even with the school that i have seminars that i teach there is always a person that has this super high motivation but he has no talent and you know that it just cannot happen but you cannot say to anybody that you're not good it cannot happen because that you

i've learned that lesson i've i've said that before and three years later hey remember me well guess what my dog is now igp3 i'm like okay yeah your dog is igp3 but that doesn't mean that you you have talent for this like like you can paint by numbers but you cannot actually paint i know what you're talking about i have of course the same situation uh especially um um at home i have not this super dog sportless i have uh not talented people yeah but if you talk to them about this they accept their problems and their level then it's easy to help them and to improve of course they will never they will never become an ivan balabana for her or something like this here but they don't want this and this is the most important thing that you make clear uh on what do we want on what basics they stand yes yeah and then i always tell two things to the people i say i can push you forward as maximum as i can but this goes to your personality you have to change your personality yeah like i told you the people freeze the body move this way stay this way no don't move don't become hyperactive if you if you are in conflict don't make ha ha stop this it's not allowed yeah when you train dogs because the dog never understands humor so if you tell us and then i tell another thing to the people if you feel it personally when i criticize you when i give you compulsion like your dog yeah if you then i quit if you accept this that all the stress and all the power i put on you to change your behavior um is a good will to push you forward but tell please tell me if it touches you personally good strategy then tell me before i don't have to do this and for me i quit if it's if if you get angry personally yeah and um then you can treat people in a way um that you punish them because i have i have a very in a very top man he's so busy every training he forgot what he has learned last time yeah yeah and we always start again again and then he starts again i said hey hey hey hey what do you do you destroy everything yeah do this do this do this do this do this and then he has to be median and do this and we start from being and what i do in the training i do one only one session barking situation out of the blind plots and he didn't do the the important things uh for positive and for reinforcement and for body language and then the whole training is just training this 10 times yeah yeah when happens open we start from the beginning trying trying to create some habit in in trying to create uh you see when when you were at the army

you get drill you know what drill is so drill this exercise drill this exercise and then next time we next next next time we drill the next exercise next time he forgot the first yeah right and then i learned to be quite patient in the past i this conflict creates me gray nowadays i know uh i should sit down and drink a beer yes you get with time you get a little better a lot better actually to to evaluate the person not so much the dog but the person is that person capable do they really even understand what it takes to because it's so easy to dream kite so is it to be on that level one of unconsciously incompetent the first 20 years was training a dog the last 20 years is training the people person yeah and it's much more difficult but it's more interesting no i mean i think it's interesting i i really think it's very interesting to teach a person when you have when you don't need to worry about the dog let's say the dog component we have a dog that is capable but we need to work with a person and to figure it out what's the limit and how much effort and sacrifice they want to put in because so so often you give so much time to somebody and that is just i quit i'm doing i don't know something golf what just gone pop well for me uh i learned a lot uh what i can use in dog sport in educating employees in my practice there are so many similar things uh about the techniques about the loadability and the only problem is dogs become better and better talents with employee i don't find talents any longer it's so terrible this is the only thing what i what i'm suffering in my practice i would like to have young uh talented uh people for this and this becomes more and more difficult so i think we talked a lot we did i think it's time to stop i have this one last thing talent or hard work what do you meet well sometimes there is the say well if you put the time and if you work hard you can do you can beat talent or if you have talent but you don't work so hard working hard working hard is gonna beat you so i think i think if you can compete nowadays on the top you need a good talent and you have to be professional or or a rich husband that you have a space for this or a rich woman that you have a space for this because um when uh when you want to compete on the top you have to be very busy yeah yeah and and discipline yeah but believe me i compete with my dogs quite good on a high level

and i'm very lazy for this yeah that's how i i am the same thing yeah if you if you uh i don't want to win because and i just explained my friends uh for example peter who became the world champion peter other people also need to become the champion yeah be happy be happy if they win yes because um you will win again sometimes uh but uh don't try to um to stabilize this you won because there was also a little luck there was yes super dog there was super training you were busy but the stars aligned if you if you want to uh cement this yeah you overload yes see if you are overloaded you lose the happiness and without the happiness you will not win yeah i i almost hate to say this but it's it's exactly right like once you can you win few many times in a row yeah it's done but what is a stake as far as your mental and physical health to do that it's not it becomes no fun and you will sell uh buy and sell and buy and sell and buy and sell and buy and sell because you know uh this dog has here a little problem this dog has there a little problem and uh if i want to make sure this is too less for me yeah so uh this is there is so much compulsion pressing on you that you uh must be a a character like that enjoyment you must a character like fritz buehler that you can stand this i know and he he he's uh he's a different animal yeah yeah yeah helmut thank you so much like my pleasure absolutely absolutely love talking to you okay and uh thank you for coming for me it's amazing yeah thank you now we worked hard for a glass of wine tea Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.