E171: 줄리 다니엘스(Julie Daniels) - "더 자신감 있는 개를 만드는 7일"

So I think many people kind of notice if a dog is super shy or very fearful, but perhaps they miss some of the body language when it comes to a dog that's just unsure. Can you describe the kind of body language you're talking about when we say a dog is confident and maybe some of the more subtle signs that a dog may be lacking in confidence? Sure. Yeah. So it's good that you mentioned that because obviously that's a construct and different people will see different things and look for different things. So to operationalize something like confidence, I think we can look at specific indication of is the dog looking to approach or is the dog looking to avoid? So if you see the center of gravity shifting forward and the dog actually taking steps forward, toward, let's say, a new item, a novel stimulus, then we measure the dog's confidence a little bit by that. And I would say that dog is demonstrating curiosity, another concept. So or is the dog center of gravity going backwards? In other words, are we seeing an avoidant response instead of an approach response? In which case we might say the dog is a little bit more pessimistic and not so optimistic and more anxious and less curious. All constructs, I know. But we do have sort of similar interpretations of seeing those elements of body language in dogs as in people. I think that's probably why we're pretty good at being able to make the discernments about whether a dog wants to approach or a dog wants to avoid because we're so good at seeing that same thing in people. And it kind of depends upon the weight shift and the head and eye movements that the creature makes. So, yeah, we're pretty good at seeing that. So when we're talking about a switch or trying to build confidence, can you talk a little bit about how you approach that in training? The easiest way to describe my approach is that I'm interested in the emotions that are going on underneath the behaviors that we just discussed. So I'm a big fan of the work of Yak Panksept. And he describes things like emotional affects. An emotional feeling is an affect. And all sentient beings have various emotional affects. And Yak Panksept described seven, ultimately seven. He started with four and then he added three more. And I'm going to, in this workshop, rather than get into all seven affects, I do just talk just a little bit about each one in the workshop. But the real point here is that I chose the seeking system and the play system as being the two emotional affects that I was going to emphasize in the workshop. You can't do everything.

And what I decided to do was make it an active confidence session. I'm using things like movement, value for novelty, actions of coming forward with the nose and with the head, push games and things like that. So it's all a games approach with me. But what we're doing and why is very, very important. And so the direct answer to your question is that I take an emotional approach. I'm interested in the dog's emotions. And I'm interested in creating, using the dog's emotions to create feelings of curiosity and optimism. Those are my two fundamental desires for the dog that I'm working with. Can I turn the dog's pessimism into optimism? Can I overwrite, you will say, a negative CER with a positive CER? And the answer, by the way, is yes, absolutely. And also, can we kindle that curiosity? We all have a natural curiosity. And can we kindle that and thereby increase the dog's sense of optimism? That make sense? Yeah, yeah. And it gets kind of into what I wanted to ask about next, which is, you know, there's this huge nurture versus nature debate, right? And I was hoping you could talk a little bit about the impact training for confidence can have on that. What kind of changes is it possible to see? Yeah. Okay. So if I'm just going to continue with the things I was just talking about, I think we could say that you have a natural threshold in any creature that you work with. And if we were to look at ourselves, we would see the same on introspection that we all have sort of a natural range of, let's say, optimism and let's say curiosity set points, you might say, and threshold, you might say. There's a certain threshold over which curiosity can get the better of you and all of a sudden you're anxious, right? Like, uh-oh, came in too close. And that, of course, I'll talk more about that later, I think. But nature versus nurture. Sure, nature gave you something to start with and consider it a range, a big range and a set point. But it's only a start point. From my point of view, I can make a difference. And so that's what I'm going to do. A lot of people think about this concept and they're like, yep, it's essential to do it during socialization. And then they think maybe, you know, they don't even think about doing it with an older dog. Is there really an age when it's best to do this type of work? Is it ever just too late? Okay. Two questions in one and they're both so good. I'm going to do one at a time. Is there a best time? Well, it's hard to disagree with the importance of socialization during the critical periods of acquisition of those kinds of feelings.

Very, very, very young baby puppies don't really have a fear response. And that's a good time to introduce certain things. And it's also a good time to imprint a recall. And there are many, many, many things that benefit from our starting young. Gosh, I just did that webinar and trained this first. I do these things right now. These are the things to do in the first few weeks that you bring your puppy home. So you can't do everything. So many things can be done at any time in life, but there are certain things that benefit from starting them very early. And I would not deny that. However, that said, this workshop is about, I don't care where you're at. I don't care where your start point is. I can improve your dog's confidence to the upper end of his range, even starting later in life. So there is now I'm answering the second part of your question. There is not a time when it's too late. There is not a time when it's too late. You can overwrite. And we will do some of that in this workshop and you'll learn how to do it. You can overwrite a negative conditioned emotional response with a positive one. You can't erase what's done. You can't take the salt out of the soup. So the longer the dog has had this problem, you might say, the more salt there is in the soup. So we're overwriting. We're adding more carrots and potatoes and everything else to the soup so that the aggregate level of experience is much, much greater when we finish. And all the stuff that we're adding is good. So do you see what I mean? So we can make a very big difference in the conditioned emotional response that any dog will have to an upcoming event. I like the salt in the soup analogy. I haven't heard that one before. But I've certainly done it, right? Like you put salt in the soup and then you have to kind of dilute it back down. But yeah, you can't get it out of there. You wish you could. You wish you could. So you can't erase a negative experience, but you can make a big, big, big difference in how the dog views the future through an aggregate level of really good, solid training that will improve the points that you want to work on. Seven days to a more confident dog is kind of a bold name. I know technically it helps come up with it, but is it reasonable? Yes, you're glossing over that. Let's go with that. Yes, you did help me come up with that. We were chatting up at my place at New Hampshire Minicamp. And you said, here's your workshop. And you go seven days to a braver dog and one game each day. Like it was perfect for me. I think it was beautifully well-contrived.

And yeah, ultimately, it took me a while, Melissa, but now I'm running with it. Well, I wanted to kind of ask you, is it reasonable to think that handlers will actually see an observable difference in their dog's behavior just kind of over the course of those seven days or over the course of a week? Yes, ma'am. Absolutely. Yeah. You want me to prove it? Well, I mean, I hope that's what the workshop's going to do. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I'll tell you a little bit about it. And I'm going to go back to the work of Pank. I talk a little bit about him at the beginning of the workshop before we actually get into the games. And I'm actually going to read you a little quote. And this quote was one that I wanted to include in the workshop. And I just didn't have time or space. I went, I'm just admitting this disclosure. I think I went about 15 minutes over on my hour on the workshop. So I couldn't do everything I wanted to do. But from Panksepp, The Emotional Mind, this quote by Yach Panksepp, I think, sums up. The kind of work I like to do. So just listen to this. This is Yach speaking. Perhaps the best therapy for depression, at least in its milder forms, is to coax people to play again. And also to have lots of physical activity, which can invigorate many brain systems. So that's just a simple quote from Yach Panksepp. And that is just a fundamental truth of the way I train in dogs. I don't know enough about humans. It's been dogs in me my whole life. I'm not an expert on humans. But this works. This kind of approach. So one of the things you'll see in the workshop is that I make the case for movement. I'm teaching lots of silly things that help dogs feel more confident. But I'm not doing much with stationary games. This workshop is about active confidence. And movement is big. It's very important to me. So the two affects, remember, an affect is just an emotional set, an emotional set of feelings. The two affects that I'm doing the most with in the workshop are the seeking, which is just about exploring and searching for resources. And you could also consider it Yach Panksepp, always called the seeking system, also the source for enthusiasm. People think of the seeking system, snuffle mats and such, you know, if you picture that cookie scatterers and everything. People think of that as being calming and soothing. And I don't deny that it is. It is calming and soothing. But it's also where eager enthusiasm comes from. So it's a very important affect. And the other affect that we're going to do the most with is play. And Panksepp describes, I just love his description of play. So succinct, so perfect.

He calls it social joy. Is that cool or what? I mean, so we're going to use that big time a lot. Do you want me to tell you the seven categories that we'll be playing with in seven days? Sure. Sure. Okay. So I'll just run them in the order. I'm just going to tell them to you in the order in which I present them in the workshop. But I also mentioned that I'm not numbering them. They are itemized, but they're not numbered because you could play in any different category in any order. So that makes sense. So it's not the kind of workshop where one day builds on the previous day. You don't have to do them all. You can tackle any individual category. However, I do make the case in the workshop that areas of weakness benefit from starting with areas of strength, then going into the area of weakness. So I'll make the case for that in the workshop. So here and now I'll just tell you my seven categories. And boy, it's hard to choose. As you had mentioned, this is a lot about my empowerment class. This is taken from empowerment class. And we have a lot that we do in six weeks. So to, you know, to condense it into an hour is a little bit tough. But I think I chose, I think I have something for everyone. I think I chose things that any dog can benefit from and any person would have fun with. So the first category, the snuffle things, talking about the seeking system, right? But it's not just snuffle mats. You might or might not know what a snuffle mat is, but anybody can make a snuffle box. And anybody can take a bolster dog bed and fill it up with plastic bags and tennis balls and plastic bottles and, you know, sprinkle cookies underneath. So anybody can make snuffle items. You don't need a fancy snuffle mat and you don't need a fabric material. It doesn't have to be. Crinkly paper inside a box makes a fabulous snuffle box. So that's the first category. Value for novelty is the second category. And that's the curiosity principle, right? So that's huge. And I actually spend quite a bit of time on that in the workshop because it's just so important. And I'll just give you here the quickest, briefest little tease about what that's about. One familiar item out of place that is in a wrong place around your house every single day. So 365 novel, happy, good surprise experiences because they're familiar items and your home is familiar. It's just that the item is in the wrong place. And if you don't think that builds confidence, you got to try it every day for a year and you'll have a different dog. And I'm not kidding. And I don't care how old your dog is. But anyway, so that's just the tease for that.

I could spend the whole podcast on that. But let's go on to the third category is movement, as I talked about. And I'm expressing that as good energy, positive energy. Yeah. So since I already read you, Pankseps quote, I'll just move on. So the fourth category is pushing, pushing initially with the nose and then pushing with the face and then pushing with the whole head. So remember, we were talking at the beginning. You were asking me about how do you see confidence, right? What looks confident? Well, the body coming forward is a more confident response. And so you can turn that around in the brain. Did the dog come forward because he was confident or does he feel more confident because he's coming forward? And if you can create an exposure which makes the dog feel safe enough, so that whole safety and security thing, the dog, it's not just about the dog trusting you. It's that the dog inherently feels safe in the situation. So establishing operations for the dog to feel comfortable is hugely important. But pushing, teaching the dog to bop things and then to actually push his head forward actually changes the dog's feeling about who's in charge, so to speak. So I don't, let me just give you one example. I don't slip the collar over my dog's head. It's not how I do it. I hold up the loop and my dogs think it's hysterical and they smash their heads through. Because it's a game, okay? So talk about a life skill, right? I mean, that's useful, whether or not your dog has a confidence problem. But it's also an empowered response. And it's a game that creates more optimism and confidence just through that fun action and movement. Okay, so then the next category, which is the fifth category, is, oh, arguably, again, my favorite. Another one of my favorites. And that's the broccoli principle, which is everybody's favorite who takes empowerment class. We have more fun with broccoli than anything. And that's the big brag is she loves her broccoli. Yes, she loves her broccoli. So the game of broccoli, just think of it as playful resistance. So we call it the pushback games. Like the handler, if you picture the handler just putting a little bit of pressure on the chest with a flat hand in a playful and humorous and fun-loving way, usually what happens is the dog leans in, right? Then you get that confident response. It's just an opposition reflex. Most dogs don't even know what they're doing. They're just sort of leaning in to the pressure of the hand because your goal is to underwhelm with that pressure so that the dog will push back and push back just hard enough to actually come forward.

Again, we're looking for that. So this is one of those things. The broccoli principle is just full of artistry and cleverness and timing and the pace and the tempo of the game that's going on when you choose to play it and apply it. And it's where the art meets the science for sure. Anyway, one of my very favorites and everybody loves playing broccoli and I have quite a few fun examples in the workshop. The last two categories are about noise. And I decided noise was so important we had to cover it in two sections. And the first is about noise that the dog cannot control. It happens in the environment. There's nothing the dog can do about it. And so I call that noise tolerance. So many dogs have a lot of trouble with that when they can't really identify necessarily the noise. And other dogs are fine with that and they can't stand the other type of noise, which is the dog now causing the mood noises themselves. So I actually have an example and will take you up through the progressions of helping a dog improve who was perfectly fine with extreme levels of one category of noise and completely incapacitated by the invitation to participate in the other kind of noise. So I'm not going to give it away and tell you. But I think I can make quite a commanding case for how I do things to make progress in that. And that's not a puppy. Many of the dogs in this workshop are older dogs who've had problems for a long time, you know, many years. So we're talking about we got a lot of salt in that soup. So we have our work cut out for us. But you can always make a difference. And you can make a difference in a week. Believe me? Do you believe me? I do. I believe you. And I think that that sounds like a very, very full workshop. So no wonder you ran a little bit over. Sounds like there's a lot in there. Yeah, I hope so. I hope so. I tried. Yeah, yeah. One of the lines in your description kind of caught my eye. And I was hoping we could talk about it for just a sec, which is you mentioned in the description, you kind of asked this question, are you still using food when your dog is afraid? And I'm going to guess that, you know, many people listening to this who have less confident dogs are thinking that, yes, they absolutely use food when their dog is afraid. Can you talk about that? Why might using food not be the best approach? And, you know, how do you address it instead? Thank you so much for asking that question. That is really key to a lot of what we tend to do as humans who think we can buy our way into a dog's head. And it doesn't go like that.

And I think actually the fact that you're asking this question after we've already talked about the emotional affects and what's going on at the emotional level, I think that that's a good timing because I think that makes it more clear that whether the dog eats the food or doesn't eat the food, if you don't address the underlying emotions, you're not really going to make the difference that you want to make. And we all know that that's true, that sure, you can be bought for a moment, but have you really changed the dog's underlying emotional affect? It's doubtful. It's doubtful. So, yeah, bribes are problematic. And many times bribes will put a dog over their natural curiosity threshold. So, we were talking about how we want curiosity, but what we want to do is invite optimistic curiosity. Like, I think this is cool. And when the dog says, instead of, I think the novel stimulus is cool, the dog says, I think steak is cool. Um, that state can be problematic. As soon as the dog gets, for example, closer to the novel stimulus than they would choose to be, and then suddenly they notice where they are, that's a problem. Because in that instant, the dog is now in the affect we call panic. It's just a bad idea. Food is problematic. There are times to use food for luring. And there are times that food is extremely valuable if you place it ahead of time. And we'll actually do this in the workshop. I do use pre-placed treats on a regular basis. Well, hey, that's what a snuffle mat is, right? So there's nothing wrong with having placed the food there in the first place and then allow the dog on his own without your interference to make a decision about whether he'd like to go get that piece of steak. In which case, probably, um, the dog who's extremely food-driven would be hesitant and show you terrible internal conflict, which is not hard to see. Although it's a construct, it's pretty clear. Um, the dog would grab the steak and run, given his brothers. So have you really changed the dog's opinion or improved the dog's optimism toward the novel stimulus? Boy, doubtful. Doubtful. You still like steak as much as ever. But in fact, if you do it badly enough, you can ruin the dog's feelings about steak. I won't go into that either. But it's not that hard to do. So anyway, food is problematic. It's not that you would never use food. It's that bribery is, um, coercion and coercion has fallout. And so it's probably not ultimately going to accomplish the emotional effect that you are looking to have. So, yeah, I'm so glad you asked that question.

And I'm so glad we talked about the importance of the emotional systems before we talk about food, because otherwise we tend to say, well, food works for me. You know, and we're not really addressing what's going on and what we're trying to accomplish. So that's my whole thing is it's know what you are doing and know why. What are you trying to accomplish? Yeah. So we talked about this next one a little bit already, which the workshop description kind of mentions that you're addressing novelty and noise and strangeness and the unexpected. And I know you're talking about them a little bit, but can you, can you maybe still address how those pieces kind of come together to help create a more confident dog? Um, what do you mean by come together? Do you mean how you would combine surprise with novelty, that kind of thing? Yeah. Or even just, I know that, um, kind of before we started recording, you're talking about, you know, how one thing kind of impacts the other. Oh, for sure. Yeah. So even if you want to talk about that a little bit. Sure. Um, yeah. By starting with an area of strength, you build your dog's optimism for the next thing that you want to do. So you, you actually can have, um, a good effect on a different, a completely different area by warming up in an area of strength and then going on to the lesson that you wanted to have in an area of weakness, obviously at a simpler level. Um, is that helpful? So yeah, I'm, I'm all the time combining, uh, different kinds of things and, um, novelty and surprise, um, pretty much go hand in hand, right? It's it, it many times it's hard to, uh, separate them. Um, so I have that, um, game about one new, one familiar item in a new place around your house every single day. That's novelty of a sort, uh, but it's surprise, right? That's yeah. Surprise, surprise is big. There's, um, I actually mentioned this in the workshop and I'll, I'll just give you a tease about here because it, uh, had such an effect on me at the time years ago. I, um, saw Tony Robbins. Um, so you can imagine the stadium has millions of people, gajillion people. And he just yells out in that big booming voice. He goes, who likes surprises? And you know, a gajillion people raise a hand. I love surprises. I love surprises. And here's Tony Robbins booming voice. No, you don't. And then, uh, then he goes, you only like surprises you want. So I'm like, that is dog training. That is how, that's how I try to, um, impose surprise on a dog for whom I'm working on confidence. If what you want to do is improve the dog's confidence, it has to be a quick startle, a

quick recovery and a surprise they want. Mm-hmm. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and when you, when you're talking about strength and, you know, an area of strength and area of weakness, you just mean it like a, um, like when you were going through the seven different pieces, like one of those, some dogs are going to respond well to versus other dogs are going to be less confident with some of those things. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Everybody will have areas of strength and areas of weakness. So don't feel like you just want to target your areas of weakness. I'm asking you to start with an area of strength and that will carry over. Their positive transfer is huge. You don't even have to work in the same category in order to improve the dogs. Um, and by that I'll say, um, raise the level of confidence that the dog would bring to the next category. Positive transfer is huge. Which makes total sense. Cause it goes back to that optimism thing that you were talking about where, you know, if nine experiences out of 10 have a good result, you come to expect a good result. Yeah. Even in a situation that, you know, maybe is a little, you're, you feel a little less confident naturally. Right. I think that's exactly right. And, and, um, that's perfectly put because the dog turns, oh, I can't do that into wait, you know, I just did this. So by coming, you're on a roll, right? By coming off of a big success. I think that's exactly what it is. It's an optimism expecting to do well in the next thing, even though you haven't done that one before. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Uh, so you, you mentioned earlier that, you know, um, a lot of the pieces of this workshop kind of come out of your six week empowerment class. I'd love to kind of hear a little more about how you became interested in this as a topic, like back when you developed the class or even before that, what led you to kind of experiment and explore the idea of building confidence? Is there a story there? Well, I think it always goes back to childhood, right? It has been dogs and me my whole life. And, um, yeah, I was that little 10 year old kid and the, the stray dog would come to me and no, nobody else could get the dog to come to them. So it's, I've done a lot of work on confidence. In fact, one of my webinars, um, that I did for the pet professionals program was called, you know, how to be attractive to a dog. And it's, it's a mix of artistry and science and sensitivity and, you know, targeting the emotions instead of just trying to get what you want. So it's, um, it, it does go back to childhood for me.

It's my whole life with animals, um, the kind of sensitivity to what I see and how I can help. I'm always about how can I help. Um, and it's, it's by targeting the underlying emotions that you end up really making a difference in the dog's life going forward. So it's, I mean, who wouldn't want to do that work? I can't think of anyone who wouldn't want to do that work. Um, yeah. Can you, uh, just share a bit more about, um, you know, who should take this workshop? I know we talked a little bit earlier about, you know, there's never too old, but, you know, is there, is there an age, you know, that's maybe ideal for this or, um, anything else folks should know about the workshop to kind of help them decide? Hmm. Um, well, you know how I feel. Everybody should take my workshop. Fair enough. Um, it's not really targeted toward, um, extremely young puppies. I think the, the train this first, the train this now webinar that I did was, it was really targeted to the young, the younger, the better. And this is not, this is designed to be for everybody. And certainly there are some puppies in the videos too. Um, they're not little babies. This, this is not the, um, you know, the first imprinting that you're trying to do. Um, because I truly believe you can make a difference at any point in a dog's life. And, and many of the, the, um, example dogs in the workshop are older, middle-aged and older. So it's for any dog who has, I wouldn't say it's for aggression problems. I mean, it's just not targeted that way. I'm not saying it couldn't help, but it's not designed for that at all. Um, and it's not designed for, um, dogs who are so anxious that the, their inertia has incapacitated them and they really can't. Certainly if a dog is reluctant to, to try something or in general tends to hold back and not be willing to come forward. In other words, um, inertia is your enemy. Now, um, the, the thing I would say to anyone is get them moving, go for a walk and then train right, right off the walk. Don't, don't come out of a nap and train, get the dog moving and then go for a walk. But if, if the dog is truly incapacitated and unable to make a start, I think you would, um, pick one category and maybe make, make a start there rather than think that you're going to work, um, every day in a row for seven days. So it's not really targeted. The workshop is not targeted to the super extreme cases. It's more targeted toward the marginalized dogs who don't feel like they fit in. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So we're coming to the end here. I've got one last question that I'm asking all my guests lately.

Uh, so what is something that you have learned or been reminded of recently when it comes to dog training? Um, very recently, as a matter of fact, uh, one of my private students kind of brought this back to mind, but it's something that comes up regularly for me as a teacher. And I think probably many of our FENZ listeners will identify with this too. Um, it so often happens with my students and I think it can happen with individuals about themselves. We think we're doing badly and not making progress when really we're fine. We're making perfectly fine progress. And if, if you really were to look at what things were like when you started and now what things look like at this present time, anyone on the outside would see huge improvement. And yet, whether we were talking about ourselves or whether it's a student talking to the teacher, the student feels, oh, I just can't do this. And, um, I don't think this is going to work. Can you picture this? Oh, this is just not working. And I'm worse than I ever was. I'm just worse than ever. And, and when you, as a teacher or you, as an objective person looking at yourself, you actually compare the start point with where you are now, you, it's easy to see improvement. Anyone would see the improvement. And I try to address that kind of thing by, uh, realizing that that's, that problem originates in our brains because our brains get so smart so quickly. Right. And our brains learn so much faster than our mechanics can improve. Right. So the, so the way I like to describe it is your standard goes up, your standards go up pretty, pretty high. You're no longer in that category where you're blissfully ignorant and you think you're doing great because, because you have no standards. And then as your standards go up quite rapidly because you learn more, um, you begin to, get into that quadrant where, um, you know, you're consciously incompetent and that's painful, painful. And that every student is going to go through that category. You can't get to unconscious competence without going through the painful category of conscious incompetence. And boy, that just hurts. So when you're trying to guide a student through that category, it's so important to remind them that they're actually making perfectly fine progress and that they look great. And that, you know, I just said to someone recently, don't make me show you the video of when you first started because, because I don't really want you to, to, um, identify with that anymore because you're just making lovely progress. So yeah, that's, that's come up recently, but it comes up in, as a teacher, it comes up on a

regular basis. That's such a great reminder to, uh, it's sometimes really hard to recognize progress and, um, it's good to have somebody objectively look at things and go, no, really it's getting better. I promise. For sure. For sure. And so it's the teacher's job to say, look at your mechanics. Like you now can hold your hand still and you didn't used to be able to do that. Do you see what I mean? Like you're actually working the elements of difficulty sequentially, like you're supposed to, and you used to just blend them all over the place, but you don't do that anymore. Make, concentrate on what's going well, you know, quick, a brief reminder of you used to be a blended mess and then target what is going well and, and what the student does well, or do that for yourself. I have to do it for myself on a regular basis. I suck now and then too. So it's, it's important to, um, keep that perspective. That's what optimism is all about. I love that. And what a great note to end on. Thank you so much for coming back on the podcast, Julie. This is great. Thanks, Melissa. It was my pleasure. And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week with Michael Shikashio to talk about taking on aggression cases, working with dogs who guard their handlers and his upcoming conference on aggression in dogs. If you haven't already subscribed to our podcast and iTunes or the podcast app of your choice. The next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fensie Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fensie for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by bensound.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Line. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training. Today's show is brought to you by the Fensie Dog Sports Academy. Thank you.