에피소드 12 - 훈련, 비즈니스, 삶에서의 성공을 위한 NePoPo®!

there who are careless and ignorant of their dogs Behavior or not responsible enough over their dog and that's where the problem comes into play is you know like you hear a lot of there's a lot of trainers there's two sides of this coin there's some people in the industry who say like oh talking about the airplane and dogs issue right like air dogs riding in Cabin as service dogs right because that's the only designation that a dog can technically travel with you is as a service dog um on in Cabin so a lot of people are saying oh this is my service dog I don't necessarily personally have a problem with a dog in Cabin as long as it's a well- behaved dog if it's a good trained dog and here's the thing to to to to go further nobody dislikes a well-trained dog right every I don't unless unless you're allergic to them then then you probably have a problem right but nobody I that I've run into yet and you know I've run into a lot of people about dogs there are very like I I can't remember one time where someone told me they didn't like dogs that were highly trained or highly obedient or well behaved all of all of the stigma all of the all of the things that people say who come from the position where they don't like dogs they've had a bad experience with the dog who was misbehaving uh a nervous wreck an aggressive dog wasn't trained or the owners weren't responsible so my position about all of this is I'd like to see dogs have more Public Access for dogs that fit the criteria where they are well trained and well behaved and I should say we should probably make it more strictly say to say that well-trained because just a well- behaved dog can easily turn into a a misbehaving dog quite quickly in the right circumstance right so I think I think the litness test I think the the standard the the floor the minimum requirement needs to be a trained dog y yeah that's what and that's the thing when if there is a well-trained dog out in public is it a service dog is it not a service dog does it really matter if it's well trained who cares yeah but you wouldn't know because the way the laws are if you ask the person they say yes yeah then they you basically have to take them to their word uh you have to go by what they say unless the dog starts acting up or doing things right right that it's you know barking at people or other animals or you know um pulling uncontrollably on the leash you know of course going to the bathroom inside uh things like that because what even if it is say it was there was a body that had that you could certify service dogs like federally kind of thing if the dog went to the bathroom inside they can still kick you

out right even if it is a service dog right if it barks at somebody they can kick you out even if it is you know say say there was a lawful thing sure um as far as uh certifying and getting your dog test and everything if your dog did anything they could still kick you out whether it was you know a service dog or not so right exactly if the dogs are trained very well to be able to be out in public and not react and be calm and walk next to you and you know then what's the problem with that dog the problem is people that don't have any training and just slap a little harness on their dog that says service dog or whatever yeah and then they start arguing with you if you say anything because their dog is pulling them all over the place yeah it's like one of these is not like the other right one's a train dog one is your dog and it's funny like I was flying somewhere I can't remember where it was it might have been one of the silver schools but I was flying somewhere and there was a a Pity and a hard a harness with this this uh young girl she might have been like early 20s and she was traveling with his pity but the tail was tucked quivering and like the dog was like very like you could tell it was on edge and I I was listening to this conversation she like oh yeah this is my service dog and blah blah blah I'm like sitting there thinking like that's no service dog you know um just sitting I mean like I'm not the kind of guy to rat someone out about it but like it was just funny and um and yeah at the end of the day you know if the dog is well trained I got no problem with it you know now again the service dog thing is interesting because it gives you access but it doesn't give you immunity from your dog's Behavior like you said if your dog misbehaves as a service dog you still are at risk for being dismissed off of a flight dismissed or or excused from a building and that is within the right of the property owner to do so I believe as far as I understand yeah that yeah just because it's labeled a service dog doesn't mean it can't it it can do whatever it wants right right but um and then going to like your thing with the pity that's the first thing that you know I want to deal with if I'm training a dog in general but definitely a service dog is the public exposure and being comfortable and not being fearful when it's out because a cheerful dog is not going to listen to anything you know you're going to say any commands you give um any direction you give it's not going to listen because it's afraid right and especially the ones that are really really afraid they everything goes out the window they can't think in that instance

because the fear is taking over and that's the problem with taking any dog and trying to make it into a well won't say service dog but trying to make it a dog that can go anywhere or do something that it wasn't intended to do right you yes you see people that are trying to train you know Labradors for personal protection right that's like and Bart's been very vocal about you know dogs were bred for specific purposes and you know when you run across someone who's training into a breed something that was genetically removed through breeding practices you know not to be present in that specific breed that's a that's something that's wrong right that's that's not good training you would say it's unfair to the dog unfair to the yeah because you're trying to make it something it isn't right do you know why people have such a hard time with like not accepting that not accepting train trying to like train something that's not genetically there yeah I mean it kind of follows the the you know the the mind of of today it's like you know like it's that conversation like I can be anything I want to be right well sure you can to a degree but like realistically there are limitations in and Nature has limitations on you know like a parakeet is not going to be able to fly over the ocean right they will be indigenous to the island that they evolved on right they they're just not that's built for that yeah and I think when what you're saying uh is like when you tell somebody oh your dog can't do this yeah and they're like oh I'll show you they can do it right whereas if you tell them hey that's unfair to your dog your dog was not bred for that it might not be fair to try to change its nature to make it fit what you want it to do yeah right A lot of times I think if you approach it that way then it you're not directly confronting the person saying you can't do this sure but instead saying yeah maybe it's possible but is it fair to the dog and is it likely are are the odds in your favor correct so it's you know pick a different sport if you can or you know have it doesn't have to be sport it could be an activity right correct just training in general is good right but a lot of times when you're if there's a sport or some kind of thing it gives you like a goal to work towards you know yeah you know this is an interesting conversation because I've been thinking a lot about breed breeding specific breeds and their purposes their characteristics their genetics their temperaments lately and I think when we forget about where the dog came from what it was bred to do and we don't include those aspects or or activities

that validate and satiate those genetic drives and characteristics I think that's where dogs really uh become Restless in a way that maybe it leads to misbehaving acting out on those needs that are unmet and that's where we like you said that's where we run into problems is by you know trying to do something that the dog isn't or or doesn't have in it to do yeah and and I feel like that's something that's that's talked about a lot on a lot of different channels in a lot of different forums online they they talk about doing that but like can we talk about why when you do get a dog that is built for what it's doing in its life how how fulfilling that dog looks in its life for example right I'm watching this show on it's on Amazon Prime um we're watching it with my with it's just a family show we're watching and in the show the character has a dog and it's actually a black an all black German Shepherd that follows this uh indiv ual around and it shows the dog and and reminded me of this dog that I grew up with not not a personal dog but a neighbor's dog and this neighbor we were friends with the family they had children uh that were in similar ages with my younger siblings and um this this neighbor they had they lived on the other side of the the block and they had this really beautiful it was like a deep red golden retriever very big like the dog was like 707 lbs maybe even 80 he might have been a little overweight by the time he was nearing his end of life but like a a nice size golden retriever something you don't see that often anymore with good pigment and good tone and in the coat anyways gorgeous color looked like the the same color of a Irish Setter almost and this dog would anytime this this this family's children would leave the house to go visit one of the neighbors to play this dog would just Trot along them no leash no collar they would and they would not even cue the dog or command the dog to go with him he would just pick up and follow them they would ride their bikes put on their roller blades and they'd go wherever that to to whoever's house to to Johnny's house or to my brother's home house to play and they knock on the door and the dog would be right there with them they'd come in the house not that we didn't have any any anything against the dog but the dog just found a corner on our porch and just laid down and went to sleep and reliably I would come in and out of the house and that dog would not get up when I walked by it and it would stay there and stay put and then only when their children left the house he would wake up see him and he'd just follow him along home they wouldn't

say a thing and the dog never left our house like and he just did that day in and day out that's I remember that dog for maybe eight or 10 years doing that his entire life and that dog was perfect like and I know they didn't train the dog it was just the dog doing what it loved to do and in my eyes from a human perspective that was quite appropriate behavior and it was just like a good dog to me right like just and so when you see a dog that acts out on its drives there's not there's not a lot of Need for compulsion there's not a lot of Need for like external motivation to that dog because he's thriving on his genetics he was bred to work alongside of a man and he was he was happy to be a companion to his to his people y such a cool story I think people miss that with the dogs and to your point like they see the their dog is restless and not like can't settle and they don't understand why because they don't understand where the genetics are right right it's just like when you take a Mal and you give it something to bite you know you don't have to like train it to bite it wants to bite that thing and if it gets a bite every day yeah which I tell a lot of people hey do do some work with like get a wedge or something and just let your dog bite for pet owners even that aren't doing anything right to fulfill that need and you will have the dog will calm down because I think that the dog doesn't know why it's Restless like it knows there's something missing but it doesn't know why it doesn't yeah and it's for us to give him that why why and say here take that bite it and then give him some of that every day some play and then you'll see a calmer dog because now he's like the mind is like satiated right yeah he's fulfilled it's not even mind it's it's also like the the the whole the whole dog like the the spirit like the soul of the dog is satisfied like there's no bit of unrest with that dog when you complete an activity that fills its genetic purpose yeah and that's why um like Bart and Michael have said and Bart usually in his post puts it in there where and what we learned in he talks about in silver too is copy that's the whole point of the the two examples right that we talked about way back when is that when the dog wants to do something on his own right that's the most powerful thing it can do and you copy that and then that's how you put it on put something like that on Q and then the dog will do it because it wants to do it anyway right right you don't have to like try to force it into it but if the dog doesn't if it's not something natural that it wants to do now that's where you're going into you

know pushing the dog to do something that doesn't want to and that's the key when the dog wants to do something everything is easy but um going to I remember there was a lady had a Golden Retriever and she was complaining because it kept grabbing stuff all the time and it was funny because I was like well I go it's called the retriever for a reason I told her right as soon as I said that you saw like the light bulb go off in her head uhhuh you know she's just like she understood what I was saying like it clicked right then right I just told her I was like reward the dog for picking stuff up yeah and it'll start bringing the stuff to you yeah instead of running off and like chewing it which it that was funny um but that's the thing the genetics man if you go with the genetics it'll make everything easier right yeah but with the German Shepherd you think it was like more like the hurting Instinct kind of a little bit to follow the kids around oh no this dog was a golden retriever not a German Shepherd Oh I thought it was a black German Shepherd no no that was the dog in the show that reminded me of this other dog okay okay yeah yeah yeah so the dog in the show reminded me of our actually the neighbor's dog's name was Ninja it was a really cool dog um and so this black dog in the show and what was funny is going back to the show is it reminded me of the same situation he's there he's walking into this uh he's walking into this house he the person who opened the door is like hey is your dog going to be okay you're leaving it alone he's like no the dog's not going anywhere and it made me think about Ninja who would always follow those kids around and to whoever his home he went to he would just sit down on the porch business he never barked at anybody never chased a cat never ran out a car he just laid there waiting he slept and then as soon as the door opened and one of his kids walked out he just followed him and went back home that was his like he was fulfilled by just accompanying his people it was so cool and and so that show reminded me that's that's what kind of brought it to my mind is H is that black Shepherd in the show we were watching the other night um but like you know same thing with Shepherds too because I mean I'm a Shepherd guy like my heart uh you know deep down like my favorite dog is is a German Shepherd um and you know they talk about some of the old school breeders like this is like in the 1920s you know um uh Alfred Han of buser schas was a was a famous German Shepherd breeder and he said that the German Shepherd that was bred for herting sheep was the most versatile dog for

service that ever would be and any Shepherd down the road that was capable of performing the hurting work meaning the HDH hurting trials would be suitable for any type of work whether that's Military Police Service pet obedience you know actual hurting uh field workor things like that and and it was interesting and I and he said because the dog in hurting has to be intelligent like that that is the most intelligent form of a dog because they have to think on their own they are required to do self calculations about another animal because there's no it's all non-verbal it's not like they're taking instruction from a Shepherd even though like most of the time you know they work alongside a Shepherd a lot of these hurting dogs are ways away from any human influence they're working independently against herds and flocks of sheep that could be that could number in the hundreds or so you know and these sheep you know people when people hear sheep hurting they think oh little lambs and no like these German and European style sheep or Australian sheep and cattle these are mean animals like they they'll take you on and so you have to be a very confident courageous dog to be able to work independently and autonomously against a herd of of animals and and so like it was really interesting to me I've been really I've really been enjoying some of these books I've been reading about um breed or the breed originations um I'm going through a a a a kick on German Shepherd originations and so I'm reading a lot of books there but I know like the Belgian Malinois Coles even the Doberman you know have original breed books where they talk about the lines the ancestries and the purposes that of all the dogs that formed those specific breeds yeah but is that where you start getting problems when you start getting away from that what they originally were bred for and Trump to to using breeding to point them to like a specific thing because you lose the reason you you chose those dogs in the first place right like you said the German Shepherds for the intelligence and everything and ability to work if you start the you stop breeding for the hurting instincts now you're kind of changing what the dog was originally BR for so you're you get into problems later on like way down the line you know which I mean there's a lot of German Shepherds now that like they're very very reactive they couldn't handle the work that they do in the HGH trials yep for sure and and that's and that's just any breed not just Strictly German Shepherds that's any right you you've got like Yorkshire Terriers that were breed for small game you know getting rid of small

game or you have you know other animals that were bred for retrieving water foul or dogs that don't want to leave the couch that were bred to drive cattle you know things like that yeah and then I mean you get it in every breeding you'll get some dogs that are like that anyway right but the majority should be what what they originally bred for right yeah I'd love to be able to find someone find some Authority in in like animal h animal genetics and really pick their brain and maybe we look to find some someone who would be willing to come on and you know have a conversation about that because that stuff is so fascinating yeah well they're they're doing more and more studies on dogs now right a lot more than what they used to I there was an article the other day I saw that talked about that so maybe we'll see a lot more understanding coming out of you know about dogs and training except you know they're going to point it to only one of the quadrants yeah I should say two of the quadrants and they're going to call it science in yeah instead of the full quadrants right but that's I mean when we not going to that side of the stuff when when you're training and you're not using what the dog is used to you know which for us like what our our training style is when we use everything to train a dog depending on what it needs you know like you look at dogs people like the video I put up there and someone I had to pinch collar on Ripley and someone said the dog was stressed right but that's a different conversation on what they're looking at they don't know what they're looking at right I think people like that they have read somewhere where a tail that's low means dog is stressed right or the ears are back means the dog is stressed but that's not the case it's not mutually exclusive 100% yeah across the board there's more information that needs to be absorbed before you make that statement yep and then going to the pinch collar even in my video when I was actually using the pinch collar what did you see on Ripley here ears were up and she's looking at me right right because it she didn't perceive that as an aversive she perceived that as we're going to do something like something's coming like right and you could see that in her demeanor and if you if you look at that dog and say it was stressed then you know I I you don't know what you're looking at but right going to the pinch color you watch two dogs like play and if they start playing rough they're grabbing the skin on their necks and like pulling it and biting it yeah they do that and they enjoy it right right but then if you put a little pinch collar and and do a little

pressure with that pinch collar now the people are like oh you're torturing the dog the dog is stressed it doesn't want to do whatever you're asking it to do and you have to make it do it it's like no I'm just adding some communication to the dog to so it knows and and makes it more concentrated right you're imitating the sensation another dog would use to get the dog to do the same thing yeah exactly but uh yeah that's I mean the the best thing I think a lot of times with those kind of comments it's it's almost like to say yeah you're right right just move on and then they take all they they can't say anything else right because you didn't argue with them you just go yeah you're right I saw I saw this I don't know if this is a true quote or not but I saw a um quote attributed to Keana Reeves where it said that I'm at a point in life where whatever you say is right if you say 1 plus 1 equals 5 I'm just going to uh let you think that I'm not going to try to counter that or argue with you about that because at at a certain stage people they're going to believe what they're going to believe and people people can believe anything like we have flat earthers out there you know so like it's uh and and now now watch us get a bunch of Flat Earth followers there's a big uh there's a big group of people that um follow that there was actually a show like on Netflix or something about it really yeah what is it I want to go check it out I don't know like Tara had put it on and we we were watching it she wanted to see like what they what proof they have the evidence what they say is the proof but it was the show wasn't about that it was just talking about the people involved in it oh really yeah that's interesting and with when you get a kind of go back to the The Good the breeding the purposes of dogs when you go back to a dog that is like let's consider it a good quality dog right it's well bred it's balanced it's everything we want when we get that then training is actually I mean obviously training is going to go quicker it's going to be smoother because what we want is aligned with the dog and what the dog wants right and so there's less intervention or less Construction of setting up scenarios where we get the dog to do what we wanted to do because it's already actively trying to accomplish the similar or same goal and so when you so so so the selection of a dog becomes very Paramount at that point and that's when you have a rewarding experience with a dog y right but that's where your training enhances the behavior of the dog right and that's not to say that you can't have a dog who might be a little at odds

with what you want and go through a good training program to kind of merge your two outcomes as one right you can show the dog that their advantage is in aligning their outcomes with your outcomes yeah and that's that's kind of dog training yeah and that that's where having the dog figure out something on its own right and you just adding things to it to make it happen again is more powerful than trying to make a dog do something right so the nod goes to shaping versus like lur behaviors it's I think it's a it's kind of both in in that yeah shaping when the dog figures it out and now it it understands what I just did control the outcome right with more you can still get to that but will it be a strong it may look as strong but it might not be as strong right so with luring you can kind of show the be and and depends how much luring you do but luring you can show the dog what you want it to do and then maybe you only show it a little bit and then try to figure let the dog figure out the rest right so there would be different stages of luring so just Bas just barely show him and then wait and let the dog think and say okay let me try to do that again or the luring where you lure every single time where the dog isn't thinking it's just following the lure you know there's different things and then even Michael talked about that where it's it's a difference with creativity with theuring there's not as you can kind of get creativity but it's like a false creativity because you already showed the dog what to do right and then you kind of let it choose to do that later whereas shaping it's purely creativity from the dog with your guidance right or you could even say I'm not going to guide the dog I'm let it do whatever it wants but you if you want to shape for a dog thinking versus shape for a specific behavior you know the specific behavior you're going to have to guide it that's even if it's shaping you're going to have to guide the way the dog does it so it picks the right things right that's the thing when the dog wants to do it and that's when you can change change Behavior also because with behavior that the dog doesn't want to do if you make it so the dog wants to do it where it finds an advantage in doing that thing now it's going to be happy doing it as opposed to fighting you every single time right yeah so what uh i' say going back to the service dog thing how many people do you get that go to the shelter get a dog and then come up and say I want to make this dog a service dog there's there's there's a lot right there's a lot yeah there's a good number it's hard to hard to put a put a number on it though I mean I don't have

statistics on it but so if if you're training somebody so if you're training somebody and they're paying for training right and they say I want to make this dog the service dog yep and after the first session or two or maybe evaluation you say you know what this I don't think this dog will be a service dog right it doesn't have the attributes the genetics if they say I don't care I want to do it do you just keep training and you know take the money because you already told them I don't think that it's going to work right so interesting question I've never run into a situation with a client where they've heard our opinion to the contrary about their dog's abilities to be a service dog and where they've really kicked against that I I've never really had a client that hasn't understood our concerns and shared those concerns at the same time we we're very we're very clear and transparent about what we do and we've you know being years in the business now we've found ways to really communicate um effectively with people that have that desire especially if you can show them a dog that is actually doing the stuff that they want their dog to do with ease then it then it makes a clear distinction to that individual and they're like oh yeah well my dog definitely isn't that that would be kind of a making a false statement about my dog and what it's capable of doing usually a lot of times people when they're told that they still want to continue on in training because they still want the the behavior of a service dog which can be done and you can arrive at that but maybe the temperament of the dog is not suitable for public service work or public companionship but you can still have a well-trained dog around the house if you go to the park Trails hikes things like that so that's still attainable I'm trying to think if there's been any anyone like and and will I still take their money no like we make them go through you know training and then if if if it's deter like before we even start service dog training the dog is evaluated for its potential and I will not admit a dog into our program for service work without assessing its ability its characteristics and temperament traits to be a suitable service dog once that's been checked off then we put it through an obedience program and then after The Obedience program because the dog should be basically obedient in all shapes sizes you know it should have a recall it should have a stay a down stay a nice heel um and then after that once you have basic commands then we go beyond that and then there's a second program for service work if that's you know it

could be Mobility support it could be Public Access help um retrievals alerts all that stuff yeah but yeah that's the the difference between a service dog and a a well trained dog is none until you get to the task it shouldn't be anything any right a well-trained dog and a service dog should be the same in public yes the amount of training and everything and then the only difference would be the tasks that the service dog is will perform for the owner right according to their needs yes and I mean it's such a loose definition service dog because for some person if if you have if you're getting psychiatric support from your dog just their presence a compa companionship could be the task that they're providing right you know by being with you their presence is calming so it's a very like not that I agree with it but it's a very loose Loosely defined label that is not regulated which for better and for worse I I don't think there should be regulation but that's a different conversation um but for better or worse it's a self-appointed label that you give to your dog yeah so going back to the the whole thing would you charge somebody forget forget if it's a service dog right say your first stage where you're doing The Obedience part if your if the dog is not suitable for doing that in public but the person says I don't care I want to keep training do you keep training like it's not comfortable in public it's like it won't listen in public it so that's a that's an interesting question because I've never run into a situation where I can't make the dog do what I wanted to do and look good at the same time I I have I'm not saying it's out there and because it wasn't but not it wasn't you training the dog though it was the person training the dog so you know what I mean not like a board and train where you take a dog and do the training but like uh private lessons once a week oh yeah well that that's not that's not a uh that's not a knock on the training you're providing it's not a knock on the dog's capacity it's a knock on the vehicle being used to arrive or take you to the destination right because private training what I mean yeah so I mean I would have a I would have an honest conversation like saying hey what your goals are and what we're doing it's going to it's going to take years to get there or or they're matched right it's not a good fit that if you really want this it has to be professionally trained in a board and train format send it to us if they if they disagree and they want to keep going in private lessons then I would be very clear and it you know I'd say look like you can't expect certain things of

your dog for quite some time and but if they still want to continue like being a client I've never turned someone away who wanted to still be a client um um with with honest intentions you know yep it's just a matter of like leveling with them for their expectations about oh private training is going to give me a personal protection dog uh no thank you you know no not at all but that's the thing is like I think in those cases a lot of times even when you tell them that this dog is most likely not suitable for that job right yeah it's twofold one it could be where they're like oh I can do this but the other one could be that they just want to tr do the training yeah they won't follow through with it they're not committed to it or their expectations are too high for what their dog's potential is no but I mean then where they keep coming back and they want to continue even though you tell them and they understand this is not like a dog that probably will be a service dog sure but they're like at that point that's a that's a that's a human problem and and not a not necessarily a dog problem and yeah then you have to make a decision as a business if you want to continue working with someone like that and and that's you know I but maybe the the therapy there is just them going to training every week and that's fine like I don't have a problem with that as long as their expectations are realistic and they're going to be responsible about what their dog can do and can't do um but at the end of the day like you know I'm not the one spending most of my time with individual clients like I've I've got a handful of Select clients that I've carried with me over the years but that my list of people that I work with individually like I used to has has decreased quite a bit just because I run the business and and manage a team rather than do actual training with dogs like I used to so yeah but yeah I mean there there were some people who was like you know it's probably not the right fit our goals are not aligned the expectations are not realistic the work being put in is not you know what's required so and at the end of the day this is more of a business conversation but you have to you have to come to terms with acknowledging that there is in fact such thing as bad money you know you hear people say oh there's no such thing as bad money H there absolutely is because when you exchange money a client pays you they now own a part of you right for having paid you and you have an obligation to them to deliver certain results now some people are extremely fair and and very very uh polite and and just very enjoyable to to to work within

a professional client service provider relationship but then there are some people who when they pay you they really try to remind you that they own you and they own your service and things like that and business business Acumen at least on my side of things dictates that I avoid those types of clients right I don't want to deal with those types of people there are some people who are happy to take those person's money or those people's money but for me the the mental strain the emotional stress or distress that's caused from being uh linked to people like that is not worth the the money that they would pay me I can find that money elsewhere with someone else who's much more enjoyable to to attach themselves to um yeah so but the other side of that is the if the what I've thought about too is say you have the dog that is like that that it's going to take a years to get to where you want them to be right by private lessons where you're not doing the training you're showing the person how to train but it's going to be so slow what does it look like if they're out in public and the dog is not well trained because they're still in training tell them don't say you're training with me you're not you're not allow you're not allowed you have to sign an NDA you're not allowed to disclose that you train with me until your dog is at the level that I deem him appropriate you understand what I mean yeah it's like because they they and it could be that their dog is 300 times better than it was when it started sure right but it's not to the point of a well-trained dog yeah and the person is happy because their dog is 300 times better but to the other person looking at the dog they're like oh this dog isn't trained right yeah and that's that's where it's like you have to select who you work with and you know because because your clients as a dog trainer and as a business owner your dog clients are an immediate and free version of marketing for your business because like I will like okay I think I know what you're saying so there have been people who I'm like these these aren't the right client for us they're not going to commit to it they want to do training they're not willing to follow our instructions they're not going to be a good representation of what I want my business to be perceived as by other people that might be considering training their dog and so yes there have been times where I've been like hey look I think there's a better fit elsewhere and I'll make a recommendation to a different business or a different trainer um and usually the the irony of that action that that that tactic the irony of that is that

they come back harder wanting to train with you more because now you've disqualified them as someone who's good for you and they want to prove to you that they are going to be good and now it's an interesting Dynamic and so word to the business owner out there is if you if you've got someone who you you really want to be your client and they're on the fence the the best technique is to disqualify them as being someone that wants to wants to or should be training with you and it'll immediately turn it'll immediately turn on like this this like scarcity mindset saying that oh you they've removed themselves like they're not they're not they don't want to why don't they want to train with me don't I I'm someone everyone wants to be around I've got all the money in the world and they're like but you're like no I don't need your money like I think you need to train this person they come back 10 times harder and want to train with you and then you close the deal and now it's their idea to train with you and not you trying to sell them on your services uh business shaping yes call I like that business shaping um yeah it's just it's just psychology it's just consumer psychology right you know it's marketing that's the same thing with a dog when the when the desire comes out of the dog exactly right and that's why Nao is a lifestyle that's why Nao is lifestyle because it's something I use in personal relationships in business relationships in dog training relationships like it's it's and people say oh that's so weird like that's odd to say like he naop POS his whatever like his friends or no it's like it's like if you show up to a party right and you walk up and you're talking to some or you want to join a conversation and they don't turn around and ackowledge your presence and include you in that conversation you're just kind of sitting there on the outskirts of the Circle it would be weird for you to continue to sit there and even try to contribute to that conversation if no one else acknowledges you and brings you into that conversation right if they don't look at you make eye contact allow you to speak and you're just sitting there on on the out Secrets like it's odd it's really weird Behavior so why would you stand in a circle where you're not being acknowledged right like it's kind of the same thing but when there's like reciprocation and it goes both ways then there's like a nice healthy Dynamic and and it's rewarding for everyone involved yep so yeah that that kind of brings it brings it full circle for us today I think we've had some really interesting points of conversation talking about like dogs doing what

they're bred to do why and how that looks how to identify that in a dog and and and the value of a dog that's doing something that it was like you know genetically meant for um really had some interesting conversation about um more of like the business aspect of dog training dealing with clients and things like that which is which is very much a part of dog training right dealing with people a lot of dog trainers gravitate to the dog industry because they get to spend more time with an animal than with a human but in reality they have to take somebody's money they're not just training dogs for free you know and to be successful you have to be good with people you have to be successful with dogs but you also have to be really in a way successful with people because your success with dogs will only take you so far if your success with people is crap right you know eventually you might you might start out strong because word catches uh catches fire that you're great with dogs you do really good behavior modification obedience train whatever it is but as soon as your reputation catch is up with you that's going to be the the last uh nail in the coffin for your business aspirations because again at the end of the day somebody there is a person paying you to train the dog because you know I'm not taking dogs for free you're not taking dogs for free no one's making a living taking dogs for free so yep if you don't have skills with people then maybe you should work with somebody else where you don't you just train the dog and let the other person which is what which is that's that's the business I've built is like you know not that my trainers aren't good with people they're phenomenal with people but um you know I've created a um a program where people that acknowledge they maybe have lesser skills or lesser inclinations to be good with people or communicating with people and they're just great with dogs like there there are ways to to still train dogs that way and and get paid but you have to find that situation for yourself so yep so anyways awesome cool conversation um uh what what are your thoughts about online silver what I mean we're finally it was funny because we were talking about this in some messages but I think finally we're starting to see more and more people announc that they're completing that they're enrolled in it um what are your thoughts about that well I think just with just like with anything right it it takes a while to get rolling you know and then you'll see and then because it's it's like the the in live silver the live silver school is it's three days so you do it and you're finished

whereas the online you have time to do it right I forget how many weeks you have take it at your own pace almost so you're gonna yeah not everybody's going to do it right away like in a few days some people are going to you know according to their schedule they're going to um Pace it out and it'll take them longer so that's why I think as we get into like the first school was launched the online school so I'd say like a month after is when you'll start seeing like more and more people graduating from that because they you know they're going to space it out yeah but yeah some people did it right away they they must have went you know binged on it went right through it but uh yeah we'll start seeing more and more silver graduates online silver graduates as we go right and especially when they add more schools when they open it up to more people because now it's only been open up to 200 people I think as of this recording yeah so yeah and then when they start rolling out to different languages yeah then we'll see it everywhere yep it'll be interesting to see and I'll be curious to know if there are some people that do the online silver and still continue on to the live um I I'll be interested to see if there's there's many people that do that because I think there's still a lot of value in going to the live even though you've gone through the online silver because then you get the the actual interpersonal relationships with people there you get to meet Mar Bart and Michael um and the Martin system team you get to meet with you know GMS like us uh at the silver School uh the live inperson silver schools you get to have your questions answered and and for me that like that aspect of like elements of Master coaching where you have someone that can take your questions and explain them and guide you to the answers and the solutions because it's one thing to like arrive at an answer a solution and be told it's the right solution but it's another to be shown why it's the right solution and to see it in practice and again kind of going back to the gold schools that's what you get at Gold schools is like that element of Master coaching where maybe you learned Okay negative reinforcement is applied until dog does and then it's released and then the dog learns but some people don't have the experience to know like what is the dosage of the reward or the dosage of the correction or consequence that is needed to get the intended outcome and that's the value of in-person Master coaching in-person gold schools and I think that will be I think we'll see a lot of people really understand the value of that I don't think that's

something you can really quite take away from an online program just yet yeah yeah definitely the inperson silver has a lot of a lot to add to what you learn from the online silver right just the fact that you're networking and learn like you know yes learning from Barton Michael and and again for me I've said it the most uh or quite frequently is for me one of the biggest benefits of going through this program is the the network I I made the friendships I made the people I got to talk to hear their experiences sitting down eating a meal listening to dog stories listening to training stories listening to business advice business experiences all of that has been as valuable as the the actual theoretical training um that I that I acquired at the school and the program y so definitely anyways all right well that's a good one um that's episode 12 for us can't believe we're you know the little Little Engine That Could just keeps chugging away putting out you know uh little bits of recorded conversations here and there so yep we'll see if we can keep it going hopefully we will yeah please like share subscribe follow uh comment provide feedback and subscribe definitely any yeah any of that is is all always helpful to us actually I was I was looking at the analytics and 50% of the views were from people that were not subscribed oh w wow yeah so just if you're already listening just hit subscribe and it makes your life that much easier because you get the notifications as soon as these episodes drop and then we're we're hoping to be able to put a little bit more video content out to our channel so you'll get you'll see more bits and pieces that should complement the episodes so just hit just hit subscribe just do it just be a cool guy just just do it do it do it do it you can do it dark skin Hutch do it that's all right cool well good talking to you Mike uh we'll be touching base soon I'm sure yep definitely talk to you soon thanks everybody have a good one we'll see you so what have you uh what have you seen online what are you uh what's on your mind as far as uh topics go one thing was that you know the videos I put up where people are talking about the dog being stressed uhhuh where it's like to most people it's obvious that there's not any stress right people well here's the thing whether it is stressed or it isn't what's wrong with stress yeah that's the other part that's the other part that's the other side of it but like yeah I would agree there was no stress so so they their their perception of what is stressful is off and and then on top of that what's wrong with stress if there is right yeah because it's I mean you can't

one you can't get away from stress right it's always there there you're you cannot live a life with no stress oh it's not possible you walk you walk a nature trail you hike I don't know if you've ever been to Zion National Park but there's a there's a trail up it called Angels landing and to get to the top of it it's it's like one of the most beautiful hikes in the state of Utah and it's a very narrow pass a very narrow trail that leads this like it's just like a point you're walking this like narrow Ridge up to this land they call it Angels Landing look at the pictures of it it's beautiful um but to get up there you have to walk this very narrow Trail and people fall off of it and die all the time and they've got like they've got posted rails with a with a chain that allows you to hold onto the chain as you hike it but a lot of times it's windy now even if it's not windy I'm going to be stressed walking that walking up that just stressed just because of the Optics of what I'm seeing I'm not I'm not in pain I'm not in I'm not no one's hurting me no one's calling me names no one's like insulting me and I'm I'm at a homeostatic comfortable equilibrium in life but the Optics of what I see are stressful to me and that stress is a good stress it keeps me alive it keeps me from being careless right you know it's the people that don't exhibit or experience stress in situations that probably require second thought common sense you know so stress stress is a I mean like you said whether you're act like whether you're feeling pain or not stress will happen right you can look at like you can look at a you can look at a picture of something and be distressed by a picture of something even though it's it's handdrawn or a cartoon a cartoon can be distressing to somebody right yeah is that stress bad or is it good the is it bad or good it depends how you recover from it right if it affects your life for the next 10 years then you might say it was bad uh but if it helps you like if you can get past it now you you got past a stressful situation and live through it right nothing really bad happened now next time it won't be as stressful yeah and and that's what I say is like so that's what I say is like if you teach anything a dog or a person how to overcome stress it's a very good thing because stress is that's the key yeah you learn how to overcome it and how to to deal with it right the next time you will be stronger right and like also like for your example walking on the ledge at the end of it you get to like a place that's that gives you like Joy it right removes your stress right right so it it leads the stress of walking on

that ledge leads to something good right which is kind of like the basis of Napal Co right the pressure that you feel leads to something good and it it you know if you do it right it teaches you that you control the the pressure or the stress and that it will lead to something you want yeah so I guess before we really kick off we had had a conversation over the phone about like verbal cues hand signals physical cues are they necessary to training a dog whether that's hunting service sport obedience right um Q's or markers I mean a q is a marker for something and a marker is a que for something I mean they can almost be used interchangeably talked about breed purpose like dogs specifically bred for certain things the value of that everything goes to the graining it goes back to what you're talking about cues and stuff where people are what you see a lot is people giving like FES and [Music] markers together you know or different cues together like a verbal and a and a like a hand signal given together or so close that that the dog will does not um learn both it learns one or the other that and it's difficult to to separate that you know and meaning like reaching into your pocket for the ball or the food right or reaching into your pouch with the food same thing for you see it with pet dogs right where people if you reach for the dog's collar and it runs away right use that have a meaning to the dog because of the way you like not necessarily on purpose trained it but just by doing it over and over yeah