보우 와우 빌과 벨롱 부자(마이클과 바트)의 반려견 토크

faster and the first is the mother language it's the mother language huh oh yeah that's why the longer you stay on your first exercise the harder it is to go to the second exercise the longer you stay on your mother language english 20 years the harder it is to learn another language that's it's a common thing in ipo where people don't want to keep the stand in motion until they're ready for the two or the three they don't teach it right away but then they sit and the down and the stand comes more difficult because they didn't they had so much practice and so much repetition on the the first two that the third is a little stumbly oh yeah okay if you teach it if you teach all three at the same time it's more fluid they're both they're all layered together it looks but at the end it's easier yes so say that again bart it looks it looks more difficult it's much easier it looks more difficult because they must learn three things instead of two that's right and i've heard that the shaping exercises are are kind of like giving the dog the right answer you know and showing them hey look this is what we want this is this is it and then the dog is exploring and then once they've done it do you guys use a clicker or anything to indicate how do you how do you indicate that the dog is doing exactly what you want well let's say like this for the public and for public appearances we use a normal clicker or we use the whistle because the whistle in our support is allowed in competition where the clicker is not allowed in competition why should we not use the whistle as a clicker and a lot of people get confused by that when they see that because it's a little bit not normal and when we click or when we whistle it means stop doing you did the right job come and pick up your surprise your surprise which might be money or might be no money it's a package so but you say like money you're not handing them like a quarter you're handing them dog money right is that uh what do you mean by money whatever the money is to the dog if it's a a pat a toy a slack in the beginning certainly like the existential food exactly because i think go ahead well i think that helps people understand because they get motivated for money and that's what i call dog money all the time you know pay that dog pay them you know they've done a great job pay them um and uh you know i think that that and and i'm glad to hear you say that um but you know what really quick i know we're kind of getting ahead of ourselves i want i want people to know

um anybody who's watching right now we have um we have a ton of listeners from all over the world new york state switzerland greenville south carolina here in seattle um would you mind giving a quick a quick bio and just tell people what you do where you're located we said belgium um and then uh just basically what is um bart bellen neopopo and um just kind of a quick synopsis to help our listeners out that might not know yet well to start with my first name is bart my family name is bella i'm married with michael and since we married she's also a balance that's family-wise and me study-wise i was a sport teacher okay michael you uh a lot of things right i i went to school and had a degree in psychology i worked in a hospital and i did some other things and then i started a dog business so um but i was never a sport teacher or no and then we met in room 232 that's where we did math in room 232 now 10 years ago yeah at a dog event yeah the dog training seminar and then me the day before the seminar i always i drove there to the seminar at the encouragement of my friends because they were like oh bart's so great and i never heard them but i went to the host's house and they said oh my gosh mr bell and he just left and i was like oh okay so i went to my hotel i i didn't know i didn't see him or anything next day the next day so the day before the seminar i always walk around in the hotel where most of the time they put or they also host the guests and i always like to see the cars they drive with the trailers i'm a little bit interested in the gear and i remember very well on the park place there was a mercedes sprinter which is not a typically american brand and i was looking at the huh a sprinter here and i still remember the advertising on the door was dc metro canine and then it was a lady coming which later i knew it was michael with the german shepherd pulling on the leash and then we start speaking and then she asked me are you there for the seminar so yeah and then the next day she saw me in front of the public and then she was looking like me like you joker [Laughter] yeah and then it's the rest is history you guys uh got along and did he fix did your dog stop pulling or did you get some answers in that seminar there michael it's not about pulling it's about on purpose letting the dog pull on the pool collar yeah so it means that especially if you want to do bike work we like and there's different opinions about that that the dog must know that the big large color there it's allowed and later it's a must to pull it's a must right direction

of the target and in the bite work we like dogs and there again everybody his personal opinion we like the dog to have a little bit struggle with airflow because in the old dog training school so yeah when the dog is a little bit without air the bike is much more serious and much more drier and that's why you see a lot of helpers grabbing for what we call the choke collar and during the bite give a little bit pressure in the bite take away air play with the air and there you see dogs that are very nervous starts to be very very concentrated and biting very hard and of course this must be done very well and we have an anecdote about that when i was a little kid i think 15 years old i was already in belgium in one of the leading nvbk clubs and word was spread that in a club not far from our club there were always dogs biting like crocodiles and i was very interested in that and i drive with my bicycle or my little moped i don't remember anymore i drive to that village where the club was and there i was a little bit disappointed because the helper was about 60 years old and he did nothing he moved the dogs were biting very hard and very viciously out he was trying to choke them but he could not choke them so the result was a hard bite but no out and i was a little bit like huh i don't understand and i went home disappointed and i think two or three weeks later it was triggering me again and i went back and that day i was even more disappointed now the helper was 75 years old sitting in a chair and yes the dogs were biting hard and at the end no out choking choking but still no out in there bingo i would grab it the helper did nothing to make the dog bite the dog had to buy from himself and the choking was the magic involuntary biting cube that today top trainers used to make dogs biting much harder and much drier oh yeah it's just but you know as a little kid i grabbed that like thing never forget it a lot of things like that happen in uh dog training where you have an intention of one thing but the dog interprets it differently and your result is not what you expected but you can use it somewhere else [Music] well that's why one of the most important things is read the dog and read the picture because for one dog it will do this and for another dog it will do that there is no hundred percent rules that's dog training you know yeah every dog is an individual yes sir and you're working with the dog at the end of that leash you're not working with the shepherd you just work with you're working with that dog right then and right now you know and that's important and

then the other thing to know is that this is the sport world you know where people would look at uh you know some of the stuff that that they do in the sport world and they have no clue uh a lot of times what these dogs are even capable of and um you know what what were you were you born i mean did your father work dogs or anything bart no i come out of the family where we had the guard dog in africa so they were on a long cable and on the cable there was a chain and they had to guard the property that was it but that's a litter rhodesian ridgebacks or no little mud took a little month was mean enough to bite everybody lucky lucky it's a dog's name huh name was lucky yeah it was um i don't know what it was but it was a little and vicious there's a picture actually if you look at the bart villain biography on the website i think there's a picture of lucky there that's possible yeah and bart is a little kid holding the chain so so what what what was your interest in getting into sport then bart and what was i mean i said you were 15 when you went and saw these guys the 60 year old and the 75 uh helper let's say like this the same question is for everybody what is your entrance what is your interest in dog training and why do you invest so much time in it the same for other sports or other passions somewhere somewhere there must have been a trigger for michael i'm sure she has a trigger and i think i have the trigger it's it's it's more than one trigger i think that the day i was born i think two or three months later my parents did receive that little dog looking so i did grow up with that dog and it created the picture of what life should be i think that's one thing and then i think i was around seven years old and then i received a nice little book and the name of the book was uncle boom lala and his seven dogs uncle what is the name like okay boomerang was a circus artist that did do circus acts with his little dogs it was fascinating me and i think that that there's something and actually people used to call bart circus man oh yeah in the beginning of my career because i do a lot of exercises in those days that are not requested and is more based on that whole weave and uh healing on the left healing on the right healing in the middle now everybody does it but 10 or 15 years ago no no and i always did it from the beginning as a young kid and all the old man always said don't do it you you blow up your dog the dog doesn't need that it's already difficult enough like this yes but i was stubborn i continued everybody always

says that your dog doesn't need that and then what i did see very fast was that all the tricks the dog did with pleasure and fun and even if the dog did not know the trick well nobody did see it and the exercises the dog did not do with pleasure it means that you have the right technique to learn the tricks but you don't have the right technique training strategy to learn the exercises and that's why michael and i came up with the idea well let's teach every exercise like a trick and then slowly name it when we are happy and then later when he must do it he is still flashy and he does it on cue that's nipple pull okay so it's a very long story how it slowly came together it's a very very slow process you know yeah and then we look back and we see it you know that we're here today but i think you know that you let your dog be your expert you didn't listen to these guys these mentors you know you still kind of listen to that intrinsic drive that uh that the relationship with that animal brought about um what about you michael what what got you into working dogs and um you said you were working in the hospital before as a in the psychology field um and i'm sure a lot correlates there too huh yeah well i i always had when we were a kid we always had a dog we had three dogs when i was growing up and my nip before we had dogs my neighbor had a dog and the dog was lost and i was the only one who could find it so i had a and i rode horses so i i've been involved with the animals all my life um and then when i went to uh university and i have a degree in psychology that uh a lot of the things i learned there has been instrumental in developing the criterias for the school yeah it's you know if you bring two people together that have the machine and you find the the oil to bring them together that you needed you needed a lot of oil yeah well that was happening lightly so it means that two very stubborn persons together with very strong ideas well we cook the whole thing you know so there is a lot of monkey see monkey do in dog training in certain sports for example i see today a lot of defensive in the bite work me personally i cannot see that because 99 of the times it's not done well so if you don't understand defense don't touch it and if you look at the dogs they are not in defense they are still in prey so i mean at the end they are still playing the games so and that's what's happening with people without them and that was the fun thing by michael and me we did speak about all the things and the whys why that's what i tell people if you don't know the why you're doing this you're

spinning your wheels here you don't you don't you're not rooted down in anything you're just doing something because somebody told you and that's why i say why why are you doing that and then they just look at me because i saw somebody else do it i was like that's that's not a good why i normally tell people nothing unless there's a reason to do something do something only for as a reaction to the dog's action you do something an example by going around the world a lot of times we did see people having a toy under their arm as a healing target so that's the look to the dog the dog is not looking to the healing target the toy the dog is looking to the eyes of the handler and then we tell the folks what are you doing well my dog is in direct reward he looks to the toilet now he said no he's not looking to the toy he's looking to your eyes so or you do it on purpose we have a conflict there which is the ball or just throw the ball away you don't need that ball you have your eyes that's it so people do things but they don't grab what they do so well it'd be like saying to a kid you know say thank you but i'm going to put a 20 bill right here to ensure that you say thank you or do the etiquette that is needed it's it kind of it kind of messes it up you know it's not real it's not it's not a real connection real commitment and it's and and when you when you do pay these dogs they've really earned it and it's a and it's a true uh relationship there instead of trying to throw the money uh put the cart before the horse you know and try to pay pay pay for nothing that the dog has done is is uh to me like paying a kid 20 bucks for saying every time they say thank you or something this is basic etiquette and if we pay the kid at the wrong time it's gonna have a negative effect on that behavior um for the rest of their life and and it's just not understanding that real quick uh we have uh larry krohn he says good morning folks so he says he's watching with us good old larry um and then what you were saying earlier about the the choke and making the dog bite uh john sparks uh here um he says this that same color pressure causes a lot of pet dogs to launch or bite uh other dogs unintentional by handler yes of course yes of course you can generalize this on a lot of things yes and it creates also pleasure in the minds of the dogs taking away the air and at a certain moment getting it back makes them very vicious well that's why kids play that game today it makes them happy because they go too far with it they kill themselves

i'm not kidding that's what happened oh yeah well that's that's a really good point that i think that john made about uh you know just to to how that correlates into even though you're a sport uh dog person that a lot of this information can be gleaned and there's pearls everywhere even with these positive clicker trainers man i go watch them and there's a pearl you know even even if it's uh you know a lot of it is might be hogwash there's something in there that you can learn and it's important to have eclectic knowledge base um in dog training because like as we were saying earlier every single dog is an individual and there's something that's going to happen that's going to throw a stick in your program that you know these gremlins that pop up with behavior um that it is important to have that eclectic knowledge base well going back to what we were speaking about before treating every dog the same or doing things that you really don't need to do a lot of people are in the mindset of we need to build drive for example but not all dogs you need to build drive some of you want to calm them down you must read your dog and say hey i don't i'm not trying to get him more gung-ho i'm trying to get him more stable and whoa uh so off button i'm trying to hit the off button on this dog you just see a lot of that even that and it's just because people aren't reading their dogs we call it you must train your dog in exercise and immediately opposite of the exercise if you stay too long in one direction it's so hard to go the other direction can you give me an example well for example 20 years ago in the bike sports nobody nobody was able to make the dog look to the handler nobody all our dogs were looking around like crocodiles who am i gonna grab and then if you look at the old videos you see that oh yeah so there was never focus on handler now and then slowly came focus on handler and the style and the style so far that a lot of dogs even never looked to the helper anymore and that specific phenomena you did see in the back transport in the rpo the dog was looking to the handler but not to the helper yeah okay so we did see the long the same thing in the long tackles in the in the dog sports the dog were looking to the handler the helper was making a noise 30 yards further walked away slowly 30 yards further but because the dog did look up he did not see the helper moving and then you say bite and the dog was running to the place he thought he did here yeah the help of it but he did not visualize it and that's why the top trainers today they have a call control on the

focus look to me look to it whatever it is and michael and i we call it helper can be the ball the football a person whatever that's helper and we're on our hand with a piece of food and slowly it's again you know look to me look to help her look to me look who helped her and now you put pressure look to me look to help her look to me look to help her the same pressure for exercise the same pressure for opposite exercise and that's what most people get yeah and that's that's what makes it uh very nice especially with the the biting fighting and outing holding and giving teaching them at the same time makes them very even they're equivalent so they're just as happy to because they must they must out and they must bite it's the same for example if you look to the little videos that michael did post from a dog named and thor or from her last dog she has now what's his name again right now ah right now we have so many of those i guess i'm joking but i mean for us they go in the bike works so the first exercise we always learn is hold out hold out hold give hold give because he now buys sports in the obedience these two exercises where they have to fetch something and give it 20 points from 120 20 points on that so by training it from when they're young it's a piece of cake it also makes it easier when you when you already have that reflex response of a good give out when you're whistling or when you're outing your dog in the bite work it's a reflex response that's why marco uses the whistle when she does those games with her little pups good job coming at the money but in the top sports bring sport for example you can use the whistle and you use your training tool in competition why should you not do that bill the whole gift whole gift later in the bite work for example in the ring sports 280 points out on biting and outing but if your dog is not biting you have zero points but if your dog is not outing zero points finish so it means that the two are equal and it doesn't mean because your dog will out that he doesn't like to bite oh yeah people have that idea they want to stay very long he must really bite like a killer before i teach the out yeah that's too obsessive it teaches the sadness and not only that but you know and this is all awareness that's all we're teaching this dog is awareness to be aware of everything that's going on in this environment we belong to a world that's rich with external stimuli almost infinite amount of external stimuli and we belong to a world where chaos is inevitable at any minute and it's fair it's actually our moral obligation

to teach these dogs how to uh exist in this world because we're bringing them into the human world and you're giving them the right answer both on this and then let me show you contrast this now let me show you this let me show you that let me show you this let me show you that now show me beautiful you know and then it's it's opening up those lines of communication in a simple way that that dog is knows that right answer and that's that's basically it that's shaping what i was saying earlier about showing that dog that right answer before we move on um it's the same as come to me and go go come to me and go there you don't have to have to come be lightning fast before you teach the go there if they both come up together yeah well and if your dog is only coming to you guess what they're going to get separation anxiety because that's all they know and when you go away that dog is like oh crap this the the thing that's kicking in his head that we have uh conditioned is going off those neuro those neurons are starting to fire and be like hey this is not what i've been shown i'm starting to have dark spheres anxieties flooding my body and that's not fair to that animal we have to show them uh you know the the other side the contrast of what that is and uh we have a couple comments here the bite release video with ragnar was very helpful valerie says um this training style works great for me with uh task training retrieve exercises with pet and service dogs the take give combo has been very helpful doesn't just have to be sport uh bite work one of my goals and one of the reasons why i have so many inner people um on on these uh interviews in this sport world and in the pet world is that i think that we can learn so much and we can uh have unity and um together uh we don't need to have such a big division in the dog world um and that's that's absolutely right all this information that you're learning these pearls of wisdom can be applied to pet can be applied to service dogs can be applied to just bring your relationship with your beloved animal to the fullest potential that it can be i think yeah and you know that's why michael and i were very disappointed if we go around the world or specifically in the known doc sport countries that you see still the old fashioned trainings from 50 years ago and then you're thinking how the hell is this possible we are now 50 years later with so many possibilities for people via the internet via seminars or whatever to learn something no the big chiefs say this and we stay

on that old pattern makes me crazy well we all have these little boxes in our pocket and in fact we're talking live on the technology that we use every single day you know to access and to uh disseminate and to produce information and and not only that but we also have equipment and in my opinion you guys are producing the best equipment in the world um with martin systems and the e-collars the electric callers that that you guys have um there um can i speak on that sir of course the first dog that i was quite successful with was a certain flute flup and i did buy flip from a guy that was seven times belgian chan so he was not a domas he could not control that crazy animal and i still remember today when i did pay for that dog 80 000 belgian frog in 1996 no sorry 1986 it's long ago and i had to give jeff newest what's his name tell stot face so he could come to me with [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] and then i had to let my dog do the job ten stud fees and i was a very big opposant i was against the e-collars because in the old days when you pushed the button it was only one level the maximum level yes and a helicopter did fly over the dog was receiving stimulation and when the cbs of police patrols was going on the docks was up so i had very bad experience with that so for me it was a no-go until the day that i had that crazy dog that was not outing and why was he not doubting because as a young dog he did not bite and then one day he started biting and the old owner did let him bite and no out and no out and no god and then slowly with the choker and it became more and more vicious also earlier with normal physical systems everything they did was a part of the game to bite harder for the dog the out stimulations were part of the game to bite harder it was conflict training for him so but what i did not know was electricity and i never forget the name there was a guy lou zelley in my club long ago and he had one of the first in those days dt systems around the neck of the and his dog was flying out i said blue give me that thing have a bark when you break it do you pay me back i said hey i will pay whatever you want i want to see if my dog is out there and immediately around his neck there was no training for we learned the dog to use two three weeks we hear the caller i don't know i want to see it immediately i zapped the button he did fly out you cannot believe i said now i'm pro-ecology because that was much better than all the other brutality that did not help and it made the dog tougher and tougher and i didn't buy in those

days my first caller and that was a german brand checker i never forget it again i had to pay again more than 80 000 belgians from which was a lot of money in those days and i did two long tackles and the thing was flying out of each other as a young and then i did buy a tri-tronics with one pin and that worked quite okay with the antenna until the roof and then and now you must listen very well i created the own training remote control with an engineer that i didn't pay for that and everything was ready it was the first remote control that by transmitter you could change the levels because in those days it was not the transmitter on the receiver you have to change resistors okay so i was already my wheels were spinning and i didn't pay an engineer and then the day was there i went to the banks and i think it's one of the first and the last times that we've ever cried the banks did not want to support it and i was not sure because there is only three crazy guys in the world like you and blah blah blah blah blah okay at the end it was a lucky shot that the banks were not giving the money because three months later there was a brand innotech that came on the market inotech and we could buy those little things for 300 euro in those days uh in money about 300 euro it was more it was 20 000 belgium from it was a little bit more than 300 euro and very small and a little transmitter with a booster and that's how i learned to know the big bosses from innotech greg frank uran steve gill which are still good friends you know yeah absolutely ropes i mean we respect each other very well but that's how i remember greg was telling me a story about you jumping a fence or something for a dog or something let me continue first because yes yeah and then i worked a while for innotech innotech has been sold to radio systems and i was at radio systems as a consultant and one of my jobs was to investigating competitors and then i did buy all the brands and you know which came out as number one for me martin's the little belgian brands martin system and i said that to the management of radio systems and i don't know if they did grab it they did hear me but they did not like the idea i suppose and then i was pissed and then i went away from radio systems and i became a consultant for marketing systems and that's how by accident i came to that brand martin systems and i became a good personal friend from charles martin who was a hunter and specializing bird hunting and pointing those so don't underestimate mr martin

so he mr martin's pleasure was not to make money because he was not interested in making money he was interested to be the most innovative on market make cool gadgets gadgets yeah yeah well that eventually will help dogs and help open up the lines of communication with people and dogs yes and no we did not achieve to reach the world with all the specialities that they have so we were good in our little niche we could not spread the word enough and then two years ago by accident michael and i would give a demonstration on a martin systems event and in the evening the family comes to us and say michael bart are you guys eventually interested of taking over the company and we were like huh what are you asking us we were shocked and said what's going on and then they said well mr mr martin has alzheimer okay i did see the little while already that there was something going on that i didn't know the verdict and then michael and i had our little powwow and we said okay we are interested and then it took eight months michael nine months with the help of professionals four alliances we owe those guys so much for allianz is a company specialized in taking over companies purchasing and they did find the way where everybody was happy anyway if one day we would stop with martin systems we can write a book that will become a best seller this part of our life is one of the most stressful parts because mike is smart i'm smart but we are not educated for this type of deals you know there's a lot of legal stuff patents financial stuff you need you know other moving parts yeah and now michael and i we are the only dog trainers in the world that are the ceos from the e-collar company so we go where we want to go and yes we sometimes must go where the money is but on the other side we also follow our dreams yes we do that but i i have to say that the with the all the the uproar about e-collars around the world and how e-collars are becoming forbidden in more and more countries every year yeah we do feel that there are uh two major reasons you want to follow up number one two major reasons why uh why it's e-collars get a bad rap one is uh that the collars are not up to snuff yes the the consistent the consistent levels involuntary stem from uh changing of the impedance of the dog's skin uh battery life that's not a that's not a animal welfare question but uh those those things impact the dogs adversely and when people see it it creates a bad feeling so martin's system has the ssc patent which is a a patent where the the transmitter and the receiver speak to each other

so every how many seconds it's like 20 times a second and it it it adapts automatically the output so that the dog feels the same like the preset level and and also another very important part why uh the e-collar is on the siege is education of the trainers yes this is the specific technical features the big problem is that the end consumer joe bob wants an e-collar that's it he doesn't know enough to decide what do i really want and they pick up a color they pick up size of antenna they have a very specific but well it's it's very similar i when i bought my first persian rug i went into the store and i saw one and the guy told me the price and i said uh can you go lower than that and it was a cashon and he said lady you don't know anything about persian rugs that road looks the same to you as that one with e-collars people don't know enough to know what they're shopping for well and at the end it's some money the alhamso and the money drives the volume that's a typically american sentence and we hear a lot of quite angry emails why are you guys so expensive why are you guys so expensive and well there was a reason for that with patents we we did the whole explanation and it's too much to explain here yeah but now being the bosses of a company we understand better why the most e-collar companies don't come with novelties because they have so big quantities to produce that if there is a bug they have 10 000 pieces that come back so they go for the no risk and they try to make it so low in price that people buy and buy and buy and they can sell and sell and sell which is big business and there's nothing wrong to that but there is not enough innovation if you see the iphone world there the innovation goes much faster the computer innovation goes much faster and everybody's technology technology and e-collar should be considered technology also yeah we do consider it technology well i'm looking on amazon right now and i see i just typed in electric caller and i'm i'm just i'm cringing here because i see one the best seller is 39.99 40 bucks american you know 40 american and the color that i use most here is the e-caller the mini educator 200 bucks yeah you know um and that's you know that's that's the good quality collar here but it's also i mean we're i mean it's it's you can't quality you you pay for what you get now let's say like this what we are very amazed to see is the the price anti-barks are sold we know that anti-bark is the most complicated tool to make to make safe so that the dog is only stint when he barks during the action of barking not after

not after most anti-barks react after the barking and that's why a lot of strong dogs start barking and it's about the interpretation is the spin a correction or is the steamer aversive stem stim comes together with unwanted action correction comes after the fact that the dog is disobedient so but it's only a correction it works i tell you the anti-work is the most difficult color and we are so amazed to see that it's so cheap but the going back to what bart was saying the second reason why e-collars are under siege is because of the training yeah spoon a negative positive positive system okay so it's a little bit like i could take a leash pull a leash when the dog starts coming in my direction i stop pulling on the leash and i give him a treat a piece of his food easier easy i push its name i stop pushing his foe stopping the pressure it feels positive and then you can add but a lot of the old system is when we get this this email a lot at our e-collar company is it's about time i buy an e-collar because my dog is misbehaving so they go to popo and the problem of popopone is the net comes after six months or one year of positive positive training it's a language that the dog did not learn to speak and then there is different possibilities if the dog received the unpleasant feeling he runs away flight or it's normal dog also he freezes or you have a strong dog and he will fight freeze fight fight if your dog from day one learns to accept pressure as a language as a friendly language where i can speak with a low force to you and i can raise my voice if needed well the same thing with pressure you can that's a tactile command they used in horse riding everybody understands that with my hand that can be very nice to my wife with the same hands she can be more brutal to me more points right but that's a very clear explanation and i never know what to say when people send those emails i never really know what to say because it's not training it's a business where we sell callers but we're trainers also because we're a an e-collar company owned by dog trainers what people don't understand is a short question can be a whole book of an answer oh man i know all about that you know and that's where people you know they friends and family they're like hey man can i ask you a couple questions about my dog you know and i'm just like well uh yeah no yeah i'm like how much how much you got left on your credit card i don't know the english words very complicated mathematic exercises but imagine a person that doesn't know how you call it the

victim's work calculus calculus is the the thing there comes what i don't know algorithms yeah so a person that doesn't know calculation asks you that question calculus yeah how can you go there without going to the basics you must go to the basics and then after five years you can answer the question and dog training is the same people always jump over the busy things right and it's in the clubs the same and they all want to see a young dog from two months or three months old biting they don't impress me they learn the little dog to smoke cocaine the little girls learn to behave how do you want to look happy with obedience later explain that so it's like people already asked michael hey inviting you though it's the bike they might we say well we hope so but we training first and of course we let him grow and he's put in prey and everything but we are not interested in the biting we are interested in harmony and when he's right we will let him bite but that will be so easy but that's what people don't grab people are never interested in the basics they only are interested in what what we call the cheeky cheeky chaka training a helper that jumps around and walks in [Music] well it's a part of that that teaching the whole give you know the bold side of the training you know you have to teach them both otherwise you're just giving them one side of the of the coin and when they see the other side they don't know you know they're like i don't want to fight you know we want to minimize the fighting yeah absolutely well and we have a comment here i think the crap on amazon we're talking about those e-collars uh the crap on amazon and pet box stores drives the animal welfare activists uh that could be true absolutely i mean in an emotional arena uh that we're in people get very salacious um uh you know because they love their dogs i get it but a lot of times i think that that that they try to think with their emotions in the training here and you can't think with your emotions folks right okay so no that that's that's and then let's go back to martin systems now michael and i we have two full-time jobs we have the neighborhood training school which was there before we were the owners of marketing systems it's a very powerful tool so it's a little bit like you have now your school they can propagate the bible the bible is the e chord you see the mean so but we try to be very honest in what we do but honestly i mean the school must stay to school and yes we like our students to have good tools but until now we never did oblige them you can only do the school if you use marketing systems

you see what i mean we could do that or we even don't do that so we think it's the best that's why i think it's impressed too man and the finger kick and then the the the sensor this is the game changer folks is a sensor that shows that we have contact before we even begin we call it the contact measurements that that right there is the game changer in my opinion because so many times i'm trying to get the level of this dog he turns his head and oh my gosh i just hit him at a higher level because the contact wasn't made that i was not aware of and guess what we just did we we just uh introduced distrust we just introduced uh you know i'm trying to build rapport and build power and build with our relationship with this dog and boom we just wiped all that stuff clean and and to me when i first saw that my my brain was just like oh my goodness when can i get this right now like i want this right now i want that extra insurance that i know that this is making contact here and so uh you know that's the proper um innovation i believe what you also must know is that mikeland died 10 years ago we started the idea of the chameleon the chameleon is the slicky color that is very discreet looking and that you can adapt to the changing politic environment where you move in or out it means that by remote control you can take out all stimulation so that there is never a proof that you did use stimulation we call it we have delete kick in the last 10 years when we worked a lot in germany where the use of the e-collar is not allowed well everybody know that the bart balloon seminar was standing for modern training with modern training tools and yes the e-collar is part of it i never had problems never never never in this fight of all the advertising that was done but i was always ready with the delete finger kick to push out stimulation so that they can not catch me on with the smoking gun you see what i mean yeah so but the the the chameleon is more than the electronics and it it's the the chameleon is a mechanical patent that makes it so that you have perfect contact because if you have a box on the end and you have contacts on the box the box is the heaviest part so it's always you have to tighten it very tight in order to get it in order to make it so that your contact points are always touching the neck this creates a variety of problems with contact and also with necrosis because it always falls to the same spot you see a lot of people if their dog starts getting a necrosis in on the on the neck they move the box to here but what happens

after a half hour he's down here again here again and then they move and then guess what down here it doesn't it doesn't change so with the chameleon because you don't have a box you don't have a weight and in fact even a weight helps because a weight would just pull the sides in yes and make contact better but there is no uh for the extender the contact is on the side so the box actually helps the contact and for the chameleon you have no weight its weight is evenly distributed and you have perfect you can move the contact points where you want you can use feather contacts on it you have the contact measurement feature and if you have necrosis you can move your contact points and that's the whole beauty of it that was a design to make contact better and to make necrosis a thing of the past yeah those feather those feather points are something else too man so it is beautiful but it's more than the beauty aspect of it can you slide it over just a little bit might you're like holding it right behind where my head is so over to the other side other side the other way there you go perfect so right there so we see the point so if you point out the points on the side there so right there there's a feather point and then there's a feather point there so those are the what make the contact on the dog's neck and then we have the light that shows uh when the stimulus is hit or when the contact is being made there's a cycle of lights that go through and um bring a transmitter so we can see it yeah i put these things on me too you know and and i was having him hit me with this stuff and um yeah i mean it's it's remarkable and the thing is is that this was invented for professionals by professionals and now you can see the light lighting up there now if she makes contact with her thumbs there you'll see the lights change a little bit there see that so when she doesn't make contact we have the lights going off to show you that there's no contact but once the contact is made might go off but before we even start we know that we're making contact and to me that is humongous yes well when i use this on my puppy and when i put it on i raise his head and i just look up okay we have contact if we don't i know i must brush him i must move it i i know for sure i have contact but it means that michael and i 10 years ago we had a vision the e color is on the siege that's why we create the chameleon we did protect the name with a trademark which is now since a while registered a lot of patents and we did shop around for the e-color brand to put in and we did choose the martin systems brand

to be at the inside of this molded plastic you know yeah and then you know we licensed all the things from martin's system so we didn't pay the company martin systems to sell us electronics and to be able to sell the chameleons for our little store the bcbb no yeah yeah the bcd store and well it created something magic this is what we call the extender where all the other brands can put their brickstone on it and then it's a lookalike of the chameleon in functionality okay but not real because you don't have the contact measurement the only thing you have the side contacts but it's already the beginning what michael and i will offer very soon to the other brands is to put their electronics at the inside that will come so we are ready for that step it's we're apple we're on our next phone no you understand what i mean but you have you have die hearts in every brand that say well i like to stick with my brand why not so the only thing is we will put it in another well it's the same as with dog training is we feel if it's working for you it's making harmony then you do something right if you like your baller and it's working for you and you the last thing okay so michael and i we need to complete the whole chameleon dream the last thing that we're still gonna do is we're gonna put a finger clicker on market that if you push on this it will click that you hear it it will not be electronics it'll be a regular clicker it will be a regular click and that the picture of your ring is not a proof that you did use whatever it's just a clicker and yes it will be quite expensive because that mold is again what people don't understand is that moldings cost 30 000 do you want to euros that over 30 000 pieces well in which year will we sell 30 000 pieces in the year 2500 that looks like 20 20 29 next year you guys are good so and people must understand the things that we do have a price of we've been right we must pay for the r d and we're deposited without a big company like radio systems you know what i did i did i just came back from the martin systems today so i had to drive three hours and i did do quality control myself so all the ctts and all the chameleons i'm the tester around my neck i test everything he does i'm not kidding you should have heard him when he was testing the bark collar he was barking it was well we have people here that are daniel says amazing didn't know about this caller uh and he says outstanding i use the e-collar on my shepherd all day since we are out most of the day in the country wonderful you're pushing the technology of this tool i need the feathers for

sure um and so yeah there's people out there and that's that's the goal here and not only that but do martinsystemshop.com that's that's how if you guys want to find out more about the chameleon and actually order it um go ahead and visit the shop and you can reach out to them and and um you know i i i don't i don't endorse anything and i don't you know unless i use it you know and and the the colors that i typically use just because of the price point are ecollar.com you know greg's uh the mini educators and stuff but this is the color that i dream about you know this is for me and my and my little guy so this my little girl right here can you guys see her you know i want to i want to get the little guy or the little collars for my little guys and i was looking at him um and and with the chameleon and the way that you have uh this collar you can actually put it on i've tried the nano or other different colors for these dogs and it is a big old brick you know on the bottom of this dog or these feather um what people must understand is that the chameleon we are we put a lot of high-tech technology it means that the charging of the battery is with induction which is very innovative and for a lot of people quite difficult because they are used to the usb port that's right what we do is change his heart people are so hard to change from habits good or bad whatever it's a habit so we try to do that but with this color we are limited in size so we cannot serve the real small dogs that's why we didn't invent the extenders that's a medium and this is a medium we also have it smaller that fits small dogs the chihuahua yeah and we're gonna tell you secrets first of march we launched chameleon three small medium large but don't say that don't tell it i won't tell anybody [Laughter] don't tell nobody okay you got it look at this bart and michael are like steve jobs and apple the outstanding innovators and that's all because dog trainers innovate dog trainers tools and that's the point and that's it too is that we need to look at a lot of these uh a lot of these tools uh are invented by an engineer or somebody that really they get an idea of the electricity part of it and how to put together but it doesn't really translate and they don't have the little nuances of the dog training uh like the esoteric knowledge of working with thousands of dogs to see how this could actually benefit and um you know and and you know i think that because you guys are trainers that you have a unique perspective and the product that you're going produce is gonna be

not just top of the line but uh the the go-to for for many professionals you know i'm i'm drooling over this stuff you know like like i love it and um for me the traditional e-collars are bulky and heavy for small dogs yeah yeah absolutely well you have an artistic side that bill i've seen every work things that you do with glass you like to create things well michael and i were the same and for me it comes when i was a little kid in africa we had no toys but nothing so we had to create our own tools by imagination so a big imagination is what i did bring back out of africa yeah love it regardless of what you believe in and i'm going to get out there a little bit on the philosophical tip but we beca we come from a creator regardless of who you you know a creator created us and therefore if we come from a creator that means that we are many creators and that's why we're here to create and to uh innovate and to explore principles on this plane of existence by doing and by learning and um and so that's that's exactly why we're here an example what looks like very very easy is the feathers which is not easy do you see it can you see the background you must have put white paper oh you can see it just hold it really close up to the camera and then you can roll it up right there yeah yeah perfect this is stainless steel it must and bend and it must come back so michael and i had to find a balance between flexibility and durability because we can make it so strong that it cannot break but then it cannot bend and it pushes again for necrosis so you have to find the balance does it break well maybe one two percent do break and then if you look why it breaks it's because people are putting leashes on it you cannot believe what people do oh yeah i know and yes sometimes accidents do happen i mean and yes sometimes or dogs that scratch they scratch so hard you cannot believe with the backpack with the power and that's how it can happen yeah we see also the the little dogs are really left out of the e-collar train you know and when you when you look at this with the small would be minus an island on each side and your collar would go your receiver would go here so you see it can be quite small go ahead and put that around your wrist if you don't mind just so that you can show people how what that looks like you know another medium so it goes smaller than this folks smaller than this yes so it could fit around my wrist the small could fit around my wrist i did put a picture already on facebook but you know it's fun for michael and me we are the bosses of the company

but on the other side we also learned that we must be able to pay our colleagues we also learned that we have to pay suppliers we also learn that we have to pay for everything so it has a price and it's it's on our shoulders yeah what we do see is that since we have the company we triple the figures so we don't double we triple right and we do that together with those hard-working colleagues but we are also coached by the company for alliance and then and the the projects in the forecast and in the beginning they were asking michael and me um what do you think we will increase five percent ten percent and we say no we doubled yeah we were looking just like are you guys crazy or what yes i know we know the market so we hey i i know in the old days innotech double tripled every year you cannot believe i'm trying to find my old innotech books i have in here with the old collars on them too we have them in the museum you know bill it's like e-coli technology came on market 10 years ago where everybody was telling the market is full well e-colored technology shows the opposite they fly high they double they double they level it's unbelievable what they did the last 10 years why should be able to do it there is not one company in the whole world that has the whole range of products that we do have at martin systems with the innovation we have pigeon launchers we have pheasant launchers we have beepers we have falcon mps gps we have dock gps we have anti-bar we have invisible fence we have the traditional la la for the pet people and then we have the more sophisticated stuff and then we have the chameleon product line tell me which company does do that and then what people don't know is that we are rnd company research and development one of our engineers did develop a tool for mining people that if they go in the prohibited areas there is an alarm going off you cannot believe okay to save lives to save life which in new york we have seen very strong unions and the unions say the workers and certainly the lonely workers must have battle he means lonely workers the people who work solo in the dark yes but no one can see them the the next project is the men down the men down means there is a man down the system must tell the headquarters that the lonely man is down we call this a reactive system we will go further we're going to create an active system i will not reveal secrets with michael but the system will tell half an hour before a hard time comes you already remember whatever yeah i won't tell anybody you're secretly what two people know a lot of people will know soon

the chameleon the chameleon is not a standalone remote and collar it it needs uh it needs a martin system transmitter that it can be paired to so yeah we have a question here terry asks what i want to make sure i'm understanding uh the chameleon isn't a standalone remote caller it is just it is used in conjunction with the martin brand callers is what he's saying okay so with the martin transmitters okay so but the the extender is a chameleon brand it's a chameleon brand and this can be used with your doctor with your this can be used with whichever brand you have the chameleon where the electronics are built into it must have a transmitter that they're compatible with same as if you have a dodger receiver you can't pair your doctor receiver to my martin system transmitter it doesn't work right so he would very good question yeah yeah so he would buy the receiver um and you have this all bundled up and everything right you've got a separate and that's the nice thing about the martin system products and the chameleon products is you can get they you can get this and pair it to this and then you can buy a different transmitter and also pair it to this and you can sell this or you can keep it as an extra one or you can buy a micro and you can pair your micro and your chameleon to this transmitter you can buy an extra finger kick and um show the finger kick real quick too because that when i first saw uh martin systems i was blown away by this thing and yeah so that goes around the finger because a lot of dogs will get they'll get color wise and they'll also get with the remote and these people wear the remote on their vest or something like that and as soon as we start to reach for that that dog will be like oh crap you know you must listen actually i i i have a story for you go ahead the uh the the famous bart stance when the dog lays down yes 1996 it's because that was the position where he got a zap from the e-caller and you must stay down the old tritronic which was the big dupe yes and of course people don't know that but people copy that move yeah everyone copies that move and as if it's the lay down command but really the dog just caught on yep yep look at that you guys so this is uh from the 70s look at that they would do the uh vibration and then just boom nail them you know and then that dog would be because it would be calm vibrate and then here here it comes man if you don't if your recall is you're about ready to get nailed you know another thing bill this is injected molding again that's what people don't grab people always want to open things we

know that what people can open water will come in yes and they always said no i did not do it we know it water comes in that's why we decide we make it so that they cannot open it yeah but if us after 10 years the battery is dead well i have here a watch from a very g-shock well-known brand g-shock and then you read you read the warranty there is no warranty on the battery because they say that if i always push on the light i kill my battery very fast and that's why they don't give guarantee on the battery everything else michael and i we are obliged to give in europe a two-year full warranty which we do and we also do it in the rest of the world we must not but we do so we take care of our people and after the warranty we will always always help the people absolutely i have been using the chameleon 2 for two more than two years with three finger kicks outstanding all capital letters communication tool if you check if you check bluetooth that's how you do it folks you have your finger you have your transmitter you hold it behind your back and then you push if it's working then you have a good bluetooth device why your body is more than 90 water and water blocks the bluetooth signal we went to those panes so if you buy a system with bluetooth do that test transmitter in front of you your button with bluetooth behind your back and push because that normally does happen when you're working when you're working on i do it all the time yeah i mean even just you'll find you're in that configuration as as a helper this is my preferred combination this is the tool the ctt you put that on your arm or something right don't you have it where you can put it on your arm but here in this case we put it around our waist like this okay and we do it antenna a rotation of down so that we can watch we watch and now you know which level you are and you can flip it around you put it wherever you can go swim with it this is specially made for that so this is the real tactical stuff that we did for tactical people police and army and what do we see who buys it the most jumbo is it the most he said how is it possible we make it for practical people and job they think more and more pet people wants this because they want to have their transmitter in the purse or whatever and they want to be able to bike with their dog they want to be able to do errands and get their dog out of the car and carry their groceries it was never designed for that but people are smart and they find out hey it's a technology world i wanna immediately when i drive my car i wanna push on the button by the way be quiet

do you see this this is the smallest gps locator in the world the smallest we can find 32 dogs with a color like this with one handheld unit this is non-seen in the world and we have one engineer that does this we are the companies that have 150 engineers and have big bulky stuff i don't understand that so somebody does something wrong when somebody does something right i think that we do something right but we cannot reach the market with our too high prices because people only compare price [ __ ] and they never compare behind the price functionality never right so with cars they do because with cars they have more knowledge and with pants they do oh yeah yeah well well everything and i think that we're just not there i still think that we're in the emerging market here and the more that people uh see how this the the many different ways that this can be used and the applications that it can be um you know and that's something that's a very good point i'm sorry to interrupt that different applications because we use the e-collar as a do tool also yes mostly as a doom tool almost always as a doom tool you know it's a tab i heard a lady say it's a tap on the shoulder when the voice isn't working you know and that was kind of like oh okay cool that that that helps you know it just kind of it brings the communication a step further um of course at the end the dog must avoid the tap on the shoulder in competition but not for pet people the pet people you can use a tap on the shoulder forever it's not a problem yep absolutely well quality is not cheap uh uh alexa so you know and that's that's it and and you know i i encourage people to just check out the products you know and i i love just how how he's so i mean throwing it on me and shocking i mean hitting me with it and then walking you know through when i first saw bart how i got introduced to you was you put these e-collars it was on the international association of k-9 professionals and you put the e-collars on people and then you had a hundred dollar bill so you put real money out there and then you had these people try to get this this bill wearing the collars and you were controlling him and i thought that that was fantastic man yeah the lady won what's that lady won yeah she did she got it well if she was a dog we would say she's a good [ __ ] let's breed her good thing i don't know who it was otherwise i'd have to tag her you know people will pay 1 000 for a year for a new phone but stint uh on a good caller for a working dog and i just think that they don't know you know i think that a lot of this is that they

they um you know they just don't know what they don't know and as we move further along on this and and uh people see the dogs that are being produced um and that's the other thing that got my attention too i think it was with uh fred hassan and sit mean sid a long long time ago and and the stuff that he was doing um was i was like how the heck are these dogs doing this you know what's going on here you know and there's some like magic happening here i've never seen anything like this and so we let the dogs show us you know that that they're the expert um what i did like about fred hassan is fred never never never denied the e-collar never he was always open and frank about it and that's what making mike and i sick the whole world especially in europe is a little bit confused about the e-color because the people that know how to work with dogs tell the world they do it without just liars because if michael and i show the invoices of our company to the whole world a lot of professionals positive professionals would be have losing their faces what we can say is we were we will never do that yeah there's also a secret that we have to keep but i mean why just not telling the whole world that it's part of harmony and and that's another thing is uh we've gotten a lot of questions from people asking would we get e-collar seminars no e-collar workshop refuse and it's not e-collar is just a tool in the system and we think it's just a tool it's a tool and it's how you use it it's like i was a young kid and i came in belgium and the first club had two clubs in my life the first clip i was was about five six hundred meters from the door of my parents in those days at top club and there was an old man and i never forget his name jeff seis and jeff such was certainly a guy that did influence me a lot he was a very smart guy and very successful with dogs and he came out of horse world and he told me mannequin and manneke in my language means little guy little man and even in my hand i have a bamboo because in those days we trained dogs with a bamboo stick and he said with a bamboo you must be able to give the dog guidance direction direction with the same bamboo speed up reinforced with the commands with the same bamboo you must say no and then you what is us that's you charge the word no with the consequence what modern people don't do they say no no no but the dog continues why because they don't charge the world if you charge you you must also charge your your stop forward whatever it is well and do it doing what's right doesn't always feel good and that's the other thing that that

people do is that this doesn't feel good to me and i'm telling them it does it's not some supposed to feel good because it's a it's a correction we're charging this up this is something that the dog doesn't want to repeat again yes and then the same bamboo you must be able to pet your lock to carry and then after you whack his ass you can shift and you you throw the bamboo away you say fetch if you can do all that with your bamboo then you're a dog trainer he told me i was not right to understand it and at the end that's what the e-collar is you can do a lot of communication with it and if you go too far in one direction then it becomes that if i use this just for bam bam when the dog sees it afraid of it he's afraid of it he's not gonna let me pet him with it he's not gonna get it apprehension it builds apprehension and distrust if you do it wrong you know if they're clear in their head then it means something in that context and it means something in that picture and we mean something in that picture and then it's clear one more question you guys and then i'm gonna let you go we've been we've been talking for a while here i know you guys got to do dinner and i i so appreciate your time today this has been fabulous this has been better than i even uh was picturing uh bart can you explain the difference in the feel of the stem between martin system callers and other common callers dog cry ect garmin i don't have a martin caller but have been told that the stem is more of an activation stem than other colors do you have a comment for that i'm gonna ask that it's easy you can activate with every color from every brand you must be a good dog trainer you can activate a dog with a pinch collar you can also activate a dog with a choker whatever i mean if the dog understands your stimulation you can activate him with every brain but what we did do specially with our brand this we know the preferences of people that's why now brand people with the usb stick can change their preferences for example the old tractronic was known for pulsating electricity it's about three pulses per second and tritronic in those days it even patents that stimulation pattern it's like the harley davidson that patterned that noise yes sir you could also check the go bobby site where he wrote an article about the different uh uh the different peaks of electricity in the different brands and he did a comparison and he's scientifically minded so if you go to go dot b-e you will find a fair number of articles in the blog about uh e-collars what was the name of that michael go bobby oh bobby

i'm gonna answer that question with an anecdote about activating what people must know is they're always free to ask for a video chat with michael with me okay we will give people five ten minutes to explain the tool we will not give training on video because i don't believe in becoming black belt karate via online some people do michael now we don't do too much anyway but the guy is on a video chat with me and he said hey bart i did buy a chameleon and i was on a seminar and the seminar is told with doctor you can activate and not with marketing systems because with martin systems and then he did like this it does i say okay maybe you push like it it's easy tap your button of our brand on the low level giving food top giving fruit top giving food one week later you go one level higher top he will come to you you give him food top he comes you give him food now you change the feeling of the stim in a do something and then after three weeks you say hey mark my dog is very active now on the chameleon yeah but i thought that chameleon was not making your dog active it has nothing to do with the type of e-coli brands it has to do with how you train your dog right what is true is that if you tap release tap release stop release tap release stop release there is more moments of no stim and a dog needs that relaxed moment to learn yeah that's problem yes yes we for example with our brand we have 200 pigs in one second it goes very fast okay with a usb stick we can change it in three taps per second by factory setting we set it so that from level 11 it stop release tap release top release and on the low levels you have 200 picks you can change it yes but that makes more sense because in the in the for the low levels it's when you're training and when you're using it as real communication and the dog is in lower drive theoretically yeah and the higher ones you have a tap and a stop and attack so they can think and it doesn't might work because the most earnings bike it or you buy it for the bite work on the high levels unfortunately yes and if you tap with a normal collar with a lot of stimulation peaks the dog cannot out because you activate the muscles to hold and that's why we want to tap release muscle contraction yes muscle that's right but this is a tens unit you know and they use it in physical therapy because it contracts those muscles and you can actually see if it gets to a higher stem you can actually see that that muscle contraction here well and then before stopping bill we're going to make a promise between this and two months we get we're gonna put a charter online

level one is so much military level two is so much jewel level three so that people can compare with their brand that people because what frustrated us well they must ask it to their brand whatever i will not measure other brands our engineer will announce our mille joules and our advantage is hundred percent that whatever the resistance is our militants stay the same with the classic brands because we have ssc yes that's the most important pattern for us the ssc that's the patent that was even accepted in belgian welfare as a parameter for colors to be to be legal that they must have that okay and we the company we are prepared to share the patent with other brands if they come and have a fair discussion why should we keep it for us there is no reason so benefit dogs you know that's why we're here to benefit dogs at the end of the day you know um so people uh danielle says he wants to know if you're going to be bringing to uh coming to canada with your nepopo you guys have any seminars scheduled by a chance in canada and i don't do seminars anymore it's no good there you go well that's cool come to him you got to go to him now folks no so uh thank you for your time and educational chat what's that bart sometimes you must turn the page you know what the problem of the seminar is you are a little bit doesn't you you're a performer at the end of your performance it's about people having fun and whoa but you never knew what do people take home yeah what did they learn what did they learn and you have no whip in the school we have a whip you must make 90 or you are not qualified to go to gold and in gold you must do well or you don't receive your gold certificate just because you pay doesn't mean you yes yeah standards are huge man and the standards that they should be very very high especially in the sport world in my opinion that's why it's precision and uh you know and that's where a lot of these standards have gone by the wayside you know it's like the everybody gets a trophy type of thing of course it is a little bit like a driver's license because you can pass your driver's test and then hit a tree the next day yes or actually three years down the road you you have a whole bunch of tickets but it doesn't not it's not measuring that it's measuring on that day when you were evaluated you you you had a good enough score to pass the rest is experienced and what michael tries to explain you is that from every student we will keep the files for 10 years for the day that one of the students ever is under siege because he or she was using pinch color e-color or whatever

then we can say well that lady or that gentleman was very well performing and it's not because there is a claim against them that they are faulted it can be that the people that are charging them of a claim are very innocent they know nothing so we will with pleasure plead for those people and say whoa whoa whoa whoa don't judge them before you know the whole thing they learn a lot and yes sometimes people can do mistakes and then we will also say that but i mean we have the files of everybody for 10 years for when it burns and stings we could eventually prove that that day that it passed were very very knowledgeable yeah well valerie says the classroom work is entirely designed to help the students succeed if they do the work class was amazing well michael and bart i want to thank you two for being uh sharing your day with me today and and uh all this information and just thank you for innovating and making um you know communication easier for people and dogs and i look forward to owning one of your chameleon products and and uh bringing my relationship with my dogs to the fullest potential um when i have that that uh the tool that that fits them very well i'm i'm so looking forward to having one of your callers on my dogs hey bill tell people that my english is not perfect and that sometimes it uses the brain you know can i say it yeah for example the worst lazy [ __ ] is it a lazy [ __ ] is it a lazy fox or is it lazy [ __ ] i think the first one lazy [ __ ] is it just well you know that uh the first time i ever met um bart was at the icp my my beard was so like ungroomed and stuff i'm like hey bart you walk up to me you're like you look like [ __ ] you need to shave oh yeah i was like i love this guy i'm quite direct yes i always come away with some things i i never was in trouble about that never but that's the freedom of the chester i suppose that's right you come in loud you come through loud and clear of art well thank you very much you guys and if you hold on for one second i'm gonna i'm gonna say goodbye to you on the other end here and everybody if you're watching this make sure to hit that share button uh so we can get as many people watching this and showing them the excellent product and martin systems and then also let me show the the website here really quick martinsystemshop.com uh reach out to bart and michael and um and say hi and if you have any questions ask them and and thank you everybody it's super bowl sunday here in america so everybody's gonna be partying and watching that football game so uh i i i really don't know i'm going to be playing with my dogs

so i don't really know playing or anything not really important to me but everybody else have a wonderful day in america and um and then hold on you guys i'll i'll say goodbye to you on the other end um bye everybody thanks for watching bye everybody thanks for having us bye bye everybody