E185: 페트라 포드(Petra Ford) - "힐워크에는 무엇이 들어가는가?"

And I actually go over that in the course. I do a structure review on all the dogs. And I broke down structure on my dogs. And you'll see that all three of my dogs heal very differently. They have very different style. And that's because their structure is different. So structure will absolutely impact their style and how they look. And I don't, even though I like my dogs to have animation, I don't like to force them to do more than their structure naturally allows them to do. Can you break down a little bit the kinds of body awareness skills that, you know, the dogs need and that it makes sense to teach separately for heel work? Yep. So I always teach them actually how to walk with their head up because that's not a natural skill. Getting up from a sit, it's super common. All my students, when they, the dog takes the first step or two, they drop their head because in life, when a dog gets up, they don't get up with their head pointing at the sky. They get up looking forward. So they have to learn how to do that. They have to learn hind end awareness. Like hind end awareness in dogs is absolutely not innate. So if you take like a clicker train puppy and you throw some object on the floor and ask them to interact with it, they will touch it with their paw. They might bite it, touch it with their nose. Um, but they're not just going to turn around and put their back feet on it. Um, that's purely a taught behavior. Um, so it's important to teach them hind end awareness to get good turns, um, good halts. And in general, just to keep position and also body awareness. So they know, so they're comfortable with their body and they can hold position. Otherwise they just kind of float a little bit to the left, a little forward, back, left, right. They kind of waddle all over. Yeah. I mean, I think healing is so crazy and so complicated, right? Like if you think about it from a dog's perspective, I mean, it's crazy. Like, you know, stay in position, not too far forward, not too far back, not too far out, not too far in. Um, look up, you know, at me or, um, at some focal point. Um, and we randomly change position. We randomly change pace, um, and then ignore everything in the environment. I think it's, um, easily the hardest obedience exercise for dogs to learn. Um, so that's why I like to just kind of break everything apart and build everything up and, you know, um, it stacks the odds in the dog's favor for being successful. I think. I think people totally, uh, underestimate how difficult it is. I know, uh, one of Denise's seminars, I think, um, a couple of years ago, uh, when she was still

doing them, I went and she had a person heal with another person. So she had a person played the role of a dog. Right. And I think she was actually the one doing, playing the role of the person. So she, somebody was like holding, locking elbows with her and trying to deal with her. Right. And, um, it's just so surprising when you actually try to do what you're asking of your dog, how difficult it actually is. It is right. I mean, there you're saying, don't look at, you know, uh, yeah, it's crazy. It's really hard. And I always, um, really emphasize that with my students, you know, that it takes, it takes me three years, sometimes more to teach my dogs to heal, like for a fully trained healing dog, three to four years. That's a long time, you know, and because I don't like to push them too hard because I just have an appreciation for, um, what I'm asking them to do and how challenging that really is. So can you talk a little bit about, you know, why strengthening and stretching exercises really can benefit our heel work? Um, so yeah, like, uh, a lot of dogs, like I mentioned earlier, um, for example, dogs that pace a lot of time, um, people think it, you know, why does my dog pace? They don't pace. Um, a lot of times it's because they're not strong enough to shift their weight back and drive, um, up. So they, and, um, the handler can't walk fast enough. So it's a bunch of factors, but I've also, it's happened a number of times where a dog's pacing because they were sore, um, in their backend or in their core. Um, so it's really important that they're very strong there so that they can perform the task and perform the task continuously over time. So I don't just mean heal in one session, but you know, um, weekend and week out month in and month out. Um, same with their neck and shoulders. If they're tight or sore, then they're not going to be comfortable when they're healing. And that's absolutely going to impact their healing. And that could be mistaken for lack of attention or lack of animation or lack of engagement. And really, um, it's a physical issue. Um, so I always go to the physical first. Um, I always make sure that's really strong. And if there's a problem, if there's a change in my dog's healing, I always first want to check everything out physically. Um, cause more times than not, that's really the root of the issue. Can you maybe share an example or two of like what you consider to be, you know, strengthening or stretching that might be related to heel work? Um, right. Sure. So, uh, the most important thing that I always start with are, um, good posture exercises,

which sounds kind of crazy. But, um, if the most dogs, uh, most seminars I do, most classes I do, um, the large majority of dogs are tight and weak in their core. Um, so that's, um, from their ribs to their, um, pelvis. And so I'll go over that in detail. Um, and if they're tight, they're compensating there than any work you do is only going to make that more sore. So imagine if your back was kind of bothering you and then I put you in a Pilates class or ask you to do, you know, um, some core work like on a fitness ball or something, you would only be making it worse. Um, and the same, then if I ask you to heal, you'd be healing, but you'd be uncomfortable the whole time. Um, so I do the posture exercises. I teach, um, the students how to do that with their dogs first and how to maintain that because that's kind of the foundation for everything else. Um, and then we do like, um, doggy squats and, um, kind of like down to stand, sit to stand. Um, but everything's done a very specific way so that it's done correctly with, um, good posture, so to speak. Um, because I've had many instances where people came to my clinic and their dog had a problem and they couldn't, they were like stunned. They're like, I do all this, um, ball work and disc work. And then when I asked them to show me how to do it, the dog's form isn't correct. So they're actually inadvertently making it worse. I know you're including, uh, quite a bit on motor skills needed for heads up healing. Can you, can you talk us through some of those pieces? The skill, physical skills I'm asking my dog to do, um, are not natural. So there's going to be a learning phase. And during that learning phase, they're going to do it slow and they're going to have to think about it. Um, ultimately I want the skill, the motor skill to become so fluent that it's a habit that my dog doesn't even have to think about it at all. So if you take zeal, um, he just doesn't have to think about it. It's just been motor patterned in over and over. You take a puppy like Zast. Um, he doesn't have any of the motor skills. So I break each motor skill down, teach it to him. Um, initially I lure him and lure him and lure him until he just starts doing it. And then I give him the right information so that he's doing the motor skill exactly the same way every time over and over and over. And then over time, he doesn't have to think about it anymore. He just does it. So, um, like moving from, um, a sit into the first step or two of healing, like having to drive, you know, out of the sit, um, with the head up and really drive.

I don't want to take off and have pray that my dog's coming with me. Right. Um, I want to feel like, Oh, I better like hurry up judge because my dog's ready to go. Um, how to make turns, right. Um, with their head up and for example, a left turn, not just head up, but I also need them to move their back end in and do it early enough so that I have a nice, smooth, rounded turn. Um, doing about turns, like it was a very different motor skill for my girl than it was for my boy. Um, she's built completely differently. Um, and so it's a lot harder for her. She kind of, um, prances naturally. So she had to kind of figure out her balance point. Um, so pretty much every piece, um, the slow, how they use their body on the slow, how they use their body on the fast. I break it all down, um, and teach each piece as a motor skill. And I recognize that, you know, just because I've helped my dog do it a few times, it's not yet necessarily, um, in their subconscious, like a habit. I just want it to be something they don't even have to think about anymore. So kind of even beyond what most people kind of think of as fluency then, right? It's like really a muscle memory. Correct. Yeah. Muscle memory. Perfect. Yes. It's like driving, right? You really shouldn't have to think about what you're doing when you drive. Once you've been driving for a long time, it's just kind of automatic. And if you space out, maybe you went somewhere you didn't want to go. Like if you always go to work and you're headed in that direction, I've done that. Right. And I'm supposed to be going somewhere else. And all of a sudden I'm driving to work. I'm like, Oh, how did that happen? Cause it's just, it's more, it's just patterned in, right. You don't have to think about it just happens. Um, and so that's what I want for my dogs. You know, I, it just needs to be, yeah, in there so that they don't even have to think about it. Cause I have plenty of other things to think about. Yeah. So when we're practicing heel work specifically, you know, should, should we be starting a warm up? I'm starting with the warm up rather, and then doing a cool down afterwards. And if so, can you talk a little bit about what those should look like? Right. So for the warmup, um, I go over that pretty much in detail. There's some, um, range, I don't even really want to say stretching, but it's, um, kind of putting the dog through the range of motion using cookies. Cause this way you can't inadvertently hurt the dog. If the dog is sore, you know, you can't, um, overdo it. The dog's going to just go as far as they are comfortable going. So it's a good warmup.

It's also really good information. Um, because for example, if a dog can, um, put their head easily to the right shoulder, but has a hard time putting their head to the left shoulder, well, that's an imbalance, right? So that's, um, a little bit of a warning sign. Your dog's a little tight. Let's work this out before we start healing. Um, so I use, um, stretches using food. I do the posture exercises every time. Um, and then I also, um, always start, you know, um, potting the dog and just walking the dog around a bit. So everything's just kind of loose. Um, once I do all that healing, actually, I always heal first when I train, because I feel like that's a good overall warmup in general for the dog. Um, before I do other activities. Um, and then when I'm finished with my dogs, I always just walk them around. I make sure they're not panting, um, before I put them away, like heavily panting, um, and, uh, do a few more stretches using cookies again. Mm-hmm. So can you talk just a little more about what else you'll be covering in the class? Um, so in the class, we're going to be doing, um, structure evals, which are always fun. I love doing those. Um, we're going to go through the whole warmup, um, give them stretches to do for that. We're going to build up hind end and core strength every week. So it's just going to, um, you know, start with step one and build up every week, every week. We're going to do, um, body awareness exercises, um, teach some easy tricks that will get drive and maintain drive up when they're healing. Right. Um, so that when they're driving, they're not going forward and wrapping, um, lots of body awareness and hind end awareness skills, uh, for turns. Uh, we're also going to dabble a little bit on, um, some position games. So, um, the, you know, helping the dog understand to stay on your left leg. Um, so because when I teach, um, healing, even though this isn't like a true teaching healing class, um, I do focal point engagement and position. Um, I never used to do position in the past. Um, but once I started doing that, my healing got so much tighter and it, it helped, um, my students as well. So basically my dog's shoulder should always be lined up with my left leg. Um, and so there's just little fun doodly games you can do for that. Um, and that's the dog just understanding where they should be in relation to your leg. You said focal point engagement and position. Can you just kind of explain what you mean by each of those? Um, so I like, I know some people don't teach a specific focal point. Um, I do because I, well, I do it for two reasons.

One is I teach eye contact just because I love eye contact. That's a huge part of my training in general. Um, I, I just think it's part of my relationship and I can see my dogs and I can kind of see what's going on in their little heads. So I like eye contact. Um, but I like a focal point because if they don't have a focal point, then I kind of like, well, then what are they looking at? Right. So they have to be scanning and if they're scanning, they're not as focused. Right. So if I'm walking down the street and I'm looking around, my brain's kind of jumping left, right. Oh, look at that car. Look at that person. Look at that tree. Um, and I want my dog to really be focused on the task at hand. So focal point I teach, um, I teach engagement. So I don't just want the dog's attention. Like I don't just want them looking at me cause they have to, um, I want them to be actively, um, engaged and interacting with me and offering behaviors and, um, kind of really in the game. And if they're engaged, then the environment becomes a non-issue. Um, and then I teach position, which is, um, just what I mentioned, stay on my left leg, um, which gives super, super tight healing. That's very easy for the judges to score. Um, and I think it makes a lot more sense to the dogs. Um, I think it makes the whole thing more black and white. Cause when, um, the way I used to teach it, the way I was taught to teach it is, um, the dog has a focal point and then you just kind of use your leash to keep like putting them in place. And then over time, they're just supposed to kind of know to stay there. Um, but my dogs always ended up a little bit. Um, 4G that way. So I think this is, um, tighter, but I think it's much more clear to my dogs. Do you mean like with platforms and cookie positions or like, what do you mean when you say you teach position? Um, I just teach it like it's a trick. Like I, um, do it stationary. I'm actually doing it with my puppy now where, and he's only four months old. Cause it's just a game. It's, um, and I help them, you know, but it's, um, if I turn a little to the left, line yourself up to my left leg. So I, I, a lot of people do it with platforms, um, which is fine. I don't use them for that. Why do I not? Because I think I give my dog so many different tools, um, body awareness tools. Um, they don't really struggle with it. It's just like, it's just a game. Find my left leg. So I do it in position. Like, uh, I'm sorry. I mean, stationary where I'll move. Then I'll do move my left leg forward and then move my left leg back. And my dog should just move with my left leg.

Then I'll move my left leg forward. And then I move my right leg forward, but my dog shouldn't move. It should stay on my left leg. Um, and it's actually, um, a little game I do as part of, um, like Zeal's warmup because I taught him position after he already knew how to heal. So he still tends to get 4g. So as part of my warmup, I do it as a little game and he thinks it's hilarious. And then it just reminds him to stay tight. He thinks it's funny. So I do it, um, first stationary, um, and then one step and then at a slow and then builds from there. To, to kind of go back to talking about the class for a minute. Um, you know, who's the class really targeted for who's kind of a good fit. Is it, you know, all ages, all sizes, all, um, skill levels of dogs, or do they need kind of some foundation stuff in place? No, I think, you know, I, I'm using my puppy to demo a lot, um, as well as my adult dogs. So I think it's apps, it's actually applicable for all dogs. It doesn't matter if they, you know, um, know how to heal, if they know how to heal, it can make, it can improve their healing. Um, if they don't know how to heal yet, that's perfectly fine. My puppy doesn't know how to heal, but these are all foundation things I put in there. Um, and even for my adult dogs, a lot of the skills that I go over are still things I do with them today, you know, um, for maintenance, for a refresher. Um, and so, yeah, I think it's good for all dogs, all sizes. Uh, I can use, I'm like, this is really good. Cause I have a puppy and I, I can pretend he's a little dog. Cause I always struggle with that. I don't have, um, a small dog to demo, like what I would, you know, do if I had a small dog. Um, so he's going to be my small dog, at least for now for, yeah, for a week or two. It's funny. Um, what about like dogs who, uh, you know, already have maybe a couple of years of healing under their belt and, you know, there's something that people really there, the handler really wants to fix, you know, is that? Yeah. I, yeah, I, it's not like a problem solving class, but for sure. Um, yeah. If the, if they would like their dog to have more drive in the rear, if they would like their dog to have better, um, high end awareness or awareness for position. Um, or if their dog just doesn't, um, seems kind of, um, sluggish when they're healing, that kind of thing. I think that's helpful for those dogs as well. Cool. And so no fitness background needed in advance, huh? No, no, no. It's almost better if you don't, cause then I don't, you don't have to undo any bad habits. Fair enough. All right.

So I've got one last question for you, um, that I've taken to asking everyone when they come on, which is, you know, what's a lesson that you've learned or that you've been reminded of recently when it comes to dog training? Um, I think every time I get a puppy, I'm just reminded of, um, just to have fun with our dogs always. It's kind of like, you know, you get a puppy and they're this clean slate and everybody's so excited and every little, the thing they do is like a big deal. And then you have like, um, you know, your, your dog's more advanced and you start to have expectations and goals. And then people tend to get frustrated or disappointed. Um, and I think it's just good to go back and remember, you know, how you felt when they were a puppy, um, that it, they're still learning. They're always learning. They'll be learning forever because that's how it is with obedience. You know, people think like, Oh, once my dog gets a UD or their arch, it's easy. I'm like, Oh God, that's when it gets really hard. Um, uh, yeah. So just to remember to, you know, just always have fun, um, fun with your dog and don't get caught up in so much in what they can't do. Think about all the great things that they can do. And the rest is just part of the process. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming back on the podcast, Petra. Thank you for having me. I always, um, appreciate it. You're the best little interviewer. You are, you're always good. You always sound really good. Thank you. And thank you to our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week with Lori Stevens to talk about foundations for good fitness. So a little more on fitness. Don't miss it. If you haven't already subscribed to our podcast and iTunes or the podcast app of your choice. They're our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by Fenzie Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzie for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by bensounds.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Lyon. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training. Be with us. Be with us.