E277: 제니퍼 서머필드(Dr. Jennifer Summerfield) - 오늘의 수의학

5:16

my local area, I can tell you, it can still be very hard for people to get an appointment around here. There are still a lot of clinics who aren't taking new patients at all. You know, so if you're not already an established client, they just say, yeah, we, we can't like, we can't even schedule you out several weeks or whatever. We're just not taking new clients. Um, and if you can find somebody who can see you, you may need to schedule like several weeks out if it's something that's not super urgent. If it is something that's super urgent, um, it's a little hit or miss you, you know, trying to get in for like same day urgent care can be really hard. Also that may or may not happen depending on, you know, what your practices is able to do at our clinic. Um, you know, certainly we try our very, very best to get people in, whether they're our clients or not our clients, if it sounds something, if it sounds like it's something that legitimately really needs seen. Um, but it's hard, you know, because the problem is that no matter how much we want to help and we're like, yes, that sounds like it should be seen. And we want to see you there's only so much time in the day and there's only so many veterinarians and staff members available at every clinic to provide care. And there does come a point where it's like, we literally cannot, we can't like, there's no, there's no space and we can't. Um, so it's very hard. And I am in a few like Facebook groups for veterinarians, you know, which has been kind of enlightening with all this too, because it's, it's interesting to see what colleagues are saying about what's happening where they are. And it does very much seem to be a nationwide problem. Um, we're definitely seeing, I know lots of people were saying over the holiday weekend, you know, about this, the status of emergency clinics in their area. In a lot of places, we're seeing like major big name emergency hospitals and referral centers that are closed to intake for, you know, 12 hours at a time or whatever, because they're so overrun with cases that they literally can't take anymore and, or they're still understaffed. They can't, you know, take care of their hospitalized patients and see patients coming in. And it takes a really long time. If you need to get in to see a specialist or something like that right now, be prepared that that's going to be several weeks or so most likely. Um, so yeah, it's been, it's, it's been something. This has not been something I have seen. I've been practicing about 10 years and I have never seen it like this.

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So what, what's kind of contributing to that? What kind of led to this, um, crunch? That's kind of the $64,000 question, right? Is that the, uh, that's the saying. So I think the AVMA is trying to look into that because it's not totally clear. We think that probably what happened, it looks like is a lot of people adopted pets during COVID, right? When everybody like, especially there in the beginning in 2020, when so many people were, you know, working from home or, you know, furloughed or whatever. So there was like this big influx of people, you know, getting new puppies or adopting new pets. So a lot of new animals kind of came flooding into the existing system where we still have the same number of clinics and veterinarians and staff that we had before. So we think that's been a lot of it. We also have a really significant problem with turnover in our field, which, you know, has been a problem for a while, but hasn't, you know, it hasn't been crazy like this for whatever reason. So it's probably both, but like the percentage rate we have every year of both veterinarians and veterinary staff of people who leave, like not just leaving the clinic that they're at to find another job, but who like leave clinical practice or leave the field altogether is quite high. It's like twice what it is for human medical doctors and a lot higher than it is for a lot of other sort of comparable professions. So that seems to be part of the problem also. And the fact that things have been so crazy has kind of exacerbated that, you know, because people are sort of getting burned out and, and wanting out, um, sort of higher rates than before even, which is hard. So it's seems to be both. It legitimately is like we're overrun, you know, with, with animals that need to be seen, but also it's a staffing issue. Like sometimes that's why some of the ERs have to close to intake. Um, sometimes it legitimately is like the volume of cases, but sometimes it's more that they have like one doctor and one technician, you know, and they're like, we have 16 hospitalized patients. Like we can't, you know, we have, we have two humans in this, but you know, like we can't do it. So partly it's a staffing issue at times where they just can't get enough technicians or they can't get enough doctors or both, um, to be able to, you know, both take care of hospitalized patients and also see cases coming in. And that has a lot to do probably with like quality of life in the profession and the fact that it doesn't pay very well. And, you know, that's been a problem for a long time, but I think maybe the, the whole COVID

9:56

situation has exacerbated that. So it's kind of a vicious cycle at this point. So we're, we're hanging in there as best we can. Yeah. Yeah. Are there any solutions on the horizon or anything that like suggest things are going to get better or should we all be kind of trying to adapt? Yes. So, well, unfortunately I would say the short answer to that is no, I would not expect to see any dramatic solutions on the horizon for that. That's definitely a big topic of conversation, you know, in a lot of the vet groups that I'm in and certainly like the AVMA is looking at it, but it's not really the type of thing that lends itself to a quick fix so much. You know, we know that the pet population kind of is what it is and short of, you know, that same number of people all deciding to get rid of their pets all at once, which isn't really an outcome probably that we want either. That's not probably going to like reverse itself. And, you know, I would say we have some kind of deep seated problems in the profession that really need to get addressed in terms of the pay and the hours and, you know, the, the quality of life for people in the field. It's a hard job. Not that every job I'm sure has is hard in its own ways, but, but this one can be awfully stressful at times. And, you know, I, I don't know that there are quick fixes for that either. I don't know, certainly some of the vet schools and things have been trying to kind of expand class sizes to the extent that they can to try and help some with, you know, getting some more veterinarians graduated and out there. But of course that's something that, you know, it'll be four years before anybody entering vet school is graduating anyway. And a bunch of new grads in the system doesn't necessarily lighten the load all that much. Um, cause it takes time for, for people straight out of school to get up to speed to the point that they can really, um, jump in there and be, you know, as, as helpful in dealing with cases as somebody who's been out for a few years. And that's just part of how it goes. But yeah, I would say we're trying or people are trying, um, you know, hopefully at the national level to see what else we could do about this, but yeah, I don't see any quick fixes on the horizon. I don't see any reason to think that this is going to be dramatically different in a few months time, or even a year's time. Um, I will say it's a, it seems like it's at least a little bit better in my area in that, like the last few months or so we've had days occasionally where we weren't

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actually like double and triple booked all day. And we were like, wow, what happened? Like, that's so weird. You know, we've had a few days here and there where it's like, we have 20 minutes, we can sit down and eat lunch. You guys like, oh my God. Um, that hadn't happened in like two years. So it does seem like at least there are days, um, now that feel a little bit more like the normal level of busy that we used to have back before 2020 and not so much like the crazy, um, you know, perfect storm of everything that we've all just been like swimming and trying to keep our heads above water since then. So hopefully, you know, I think maybe it's settling out a little bit, but I, I think probably what's going to happen is it's going to settle out somewhere between like how absolutely crazy it was at the peak of the pandemic, but worse than what it used to be when it was just a normal level of busy. And that's probably about where we're going to sit for the foreseeable future. So, so yeah, that's definitely something to be aware of if you have pets, but that's kind of the state of things in the veterinary field right now. So definitely, um, you know, make appointments way ahead of time for things that, you know, are going to need to be seen and be prepared that you may have to be kind of creative trying to get your pets in to be seen somewhere if it's something kind of urgent, unfortunately. So it seems like one of the, one of the little things that people can do is maybe for themselves, like look at a situation and if it's not actually an important thing, you know, like you should schedule it really far out or like whatever. So do you have any tips on how listeners can maybe determine if something is serious enough that they should try and scramble for one of those emergency appointments or, um, if it's something that maybe should be seen, but it isn't a rush and they can kind of wait on it or just deal with it at home? Yeah, totally. And I think that is a good point. Um, I think the more that people can be comfortable kind of making that call as best they can, which is hard, right? Cause they're not professionals, they're pet owners. That's supposed to be what we're here for, but we're overrun. So it's hard. Um, but for sure, I know particularly ERs, like a lot of the ER vets and the Facebook groups and things I'm on have said they, one thing they really wish is that we could get pet owners to be more, more comfortable or more willing to sort of, you know, with things like ear infections, you know, or skin issues or things like that to keep those things out of the ER. Um, and I know

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it's super frustrating, right? If you're like, Hey, my dog's got an ear infection and my vet can't see them for a week or two weeks or whatever. Like, yeah, that sucks. Like I agree. Um, it really does. And, but at the same time, taking the skin dog or the ear infection dog into the ER is really compounding problems that the ER is having when that's something that's definitely not life threatening, right? Definitely not critical. Um, when we have animals that literally are like waiting to, are like dying in the parking lot, waiting to be triaged because there's not enough people triaging them. You know, it's, if you can, if it's something that's not an actual life threatening emergency, better to really try hard to keep that out of the ER. Um, but as far as things, I can definitely kind of try to break down what I can. Um, obviously every case is different, so it's hard to give kind of hard and fast rules that are going to apply to every possible situation, but we can definitely talk in general terms about, you know, stuff that needs to go to the ER versus stuff that should be seen by your regular vet, but isn't an emergency versus stuff that maybe you can just manage at home. Right? So in terms of things that should go to the ER, usually my rules of thumb for that are if your animal is acting like really lethargic, not eating, if they're having like repeated episodes of vomiting, or if they're acting really painful, especially if those things seem like they came on pretty suddenly, you know, and they're pretty dramatic. Um, those would be things that are like, yeah, that probably should go to the ER because, you know, it might turn out to be something not super serious or life threatening, but it could be based on those symptoms. So, you know, better safe than sorry. Things like, you know, well, maybe not eating as much as normal, you know, or well, we vomited once or twice, but otherwise we're acting fine. Those things, you may be okay to kind of watch and wait, you know, see if you can get a regular appointment with your vet sometime in the next day or two. I know sometimes that's easier said than done, but you could at least try, you know, call in and see what they say. But if we're talking about not eating anything at all, even like their very favorite treats that they always eat, if they've had multiple episodes of vomiting in a 24 hour period, or if they're acting like really super down and out lethargic, then they probably should go to the ER. Things that need a vet appointment, but would be not an

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emergency generally, would be things like skin problems, you know, itching, hair loss, you know, redness, all the allergy stuff that we tend to see this time of year, ear infections, wounds that are like not actively pouring blood, but may need antibiotics, you know, maybe stitches, things like that. Limping, like diarrhea, urinary issues, those kinds of things. For the most part, those are things that you, you know, would be okay to wait and see your regular vet, even if it may be a day or two or sometimes longer, unfortunately, before you can get an appointment. With things like that, if your vet can't see you right away, it never hurts to ask them if there's something you could get or do for them in the meantime. You know, a lot of times if you are a regular client of theirs and they've seen the animal, you know, relatively recently, even if it wasn't for that problem, they may be able to at least get you something, you know, that you could have in the meantime, you know, they could get you some kind of pain medication for a few days if your dog's limping or, you know, maybe if it's having a UTI problem, they might let you just run in a urine sample or something and, you know, let them look at it and get you some antibiotics if it's a urinary tract infection. Like, you know, you could ask them at least if there are any options to get your animal some relief while you're waiting for the appointment. And a lot of times your vet may be able to work with you a little bit there. You know, we certainly don't want your animal to be, you know, uncomfortable or painful or driving themselves crazy with itching for days and days either. You know, we're also frustrated that we can't see them that day if we want to. So sometimes, you know, there are solutions there that you can come up with if you ask. But that's for sure where having a good relationship with a regular vet that you see frequently is going to help a ton because pretty much guaranteed if you're calling a clinic that you've never been. They're not going to be able to do anything like that for you because they've never seen your animal. They don't know you. You know, you're going to get a lot more leeway with stuff like that if you already have an existing relationship with your vet and they know your animal. So as far as things that you could manage at home, that's always kind of a tough one because unless it's something that's really minor, it's always best to at least have your vet take a look, you know, at what's going on to see if, you know, if what you think is going on is actually what's

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going on and, you know, whether anything needs done. One thing I would say is that if your dog has any kind of a recurring problem, you know, like if you know your dog gets ear infections, right, or you know your dog has skin allergies that flare up sometimes, or your dog has some kind of orthopedic issue and sometimes they're lame, you know, because of that, you know, you could certainly ask your vet if they would be comfortable giving you some meds to keep on hand at home for kind of as needed use for those issues. You know, like, hey, we know my dog gets ear infections every few months. Would it be possible for me to just keep some eardrops on hand at home, you know, for so that if he gets one, I don't have to come in and take up an appointment slot and all that, you know, we know, you know, obviously in a perfect world, it would be really nice to have it seen every time and make sure there's not something new going on. Right now, we're all kind of just in triage mode. So, you know, that's certainly something you could ask about. That is going to be up to your vet and what their comfort level is. And a lot of it's probably going to have to do with the specifics of the case. You know, there might be cases where they'd be okay with that and cases where they wouldn't. So they may say yes or they may not, but it doesn't hurt to ask, you know, because that's at least a possible option that may help you, you know, try to keep from having to take your animal into the vet for something that, you know, it's had before and, you know, is kind of a recurrence of the same problem. So that's a thought. There definitely are some things like, you know, mild lameness issues or diarrhea or things like that that may resolve on their home within a few days without any intervention at all. So, you know, as hard as it is right now to get in at a lot of places, I would probably still encourage you to go ahead and call and try to make an appointment when you first notice the issue, because it's very likely that you may need to wait a few days before they can get you in anyhow. And that way, at least you're on the books. And if it gets better on its own before then, and you know, two or three days later, you're like, oh, nevermind, it's fixed. Then you can always call and cancel it. But it's kind of better to go ahead and have the appointment on the books than it is to go, oh, now it's been going on for three or four days and it's worse. And now I really do need an appointment, but it's going to be a little while before they can get you in. So probably calling for the appointment sooner rather than

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later. And then kind of waiting to see what happens is going to be better. Just do remember to call and cancel if you're not going to come. Because as swamped as we all are right now, it's really helpful to know if somebody is not going to come to their appointments, we can offer it to somebody else. So, and then the other thing I would say just on that topic is if you do end up needing to take your animal into an emergency hospital, be prepared for a long wait, potentially. It's going to depend, you know, on the specifics of what's going on at that clinic at that time. But I can tell you that in a lot of places, having to wait six to eight hours or so is not uncommon currently at veterinary ERs. So just be aware going in that it's, you know, bring a book. Very likely you're going to have quite a long wait. They will get you in as quickly as they can, but that's just kind of the reality of it. There may very well be one doctor in there dealing with all the things that are coming in. So be polite to the front desk staff, bring a book, be prepared to wait. Also best to call ahead and make sure that they can see you. Since again, there are some clinics who are having to close to intake for periods of time because either they're completely full and they have no more cages or they don't have enough doctors or staff to be able to see more patients or for whatever the reason. There are times when you may have to drive a few hours to get to the closest emergency center that's actually open and seeing patients if your local one is swamped and not taking patients at that moment. So again, just kind of be prepared for that possibility. Be aware of maybe where, you know, not only the closest emergency clinic is to you, but maybe the next closest and the next closest as well, just in case you have to go down the list. And do keep in mind also that emergency clinics operate on a triage system, just like human ERs do. So the most serious problems are going to be seen first. So usually we, we try to remind people that if you have to wait, that's actually a good thing, right? Because it means that your pet is not as sick as the ones that they're currently working on. It's not as sick as like the hit by car that just got rushed in, that kind of thing. So if you're having to wait, it's frustrating, but at least it means your pet is stable and not as bad off as the ones in line ahead of you. So, you know, try to be patient, read your book, please be nice to your vet staff. They're under a tremendous amount of stress right now.

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And that will help everything go as smoothly as it can go in these, these crazy days of COVID. Oh man. Yeah. Sorry. No, nothing to be sorry for. Yeah. We're just dealing with a lot these days. Yeah. It's a whole thing. Thinking through that a little bit more, right? And the piece of dealing with what we can deal with at home safely and reasonably. Are there supplies people should keep on hand or take along when they're traveling so that they have those things available in case a more minor emergency pops up or even, you know, a more extreme emergency, but you know, so they can start to do something while they're waiting. Right. Yeah. So I would say good things to have on hand, you know, certainly if you're traveling with your dog, but also at home, right. Just for whatever would be good to have stuff on hand to be able to do a bland diet if you need to. So at home, you know, if you have some, you know, plain chicken breasts, boiled chicken and rice, that kind of thing is usually what we tell people to give. If your dog has an upset stomach for some reason, if you're traveling, you may be able to take like canned chicken, you know, and ready-made rice or something like that with you that keeps for a long time. So that's good to have on hand for your basic diarrhea or your mild vomiting kind of stuff that you're like, eh, this doesn't seem terrible, but it's not great. Let's see if we do the bland diet and it gets better. Um, I would say having some type of wrap or bandage material like gauze or, you know, vet wrap, that kind of thing, just in case you have some sort of injury that you would need to wrap temporarily until you can get in to see the vet. Um, good to have something like neosporin, you know, some kind of topical antibiotic for minor wounds. Benadryl is good to have on hand in case of like bee stings, you know, or minor allergy type issues. Um, never hurts to have a muzzle in case you have a dog that is injured and painful for some reason that you're having to pick up or, you know, try to handle their injured body part. And they may not like that, which is totally reasonable. Um, so having that on hand is good. Uh, quick stop powder, probably good to have that stuff that you put on. Like if you're trimming toenails and you get the nail too short, you know, just because that way, if your dog breaks a toenail or something like that, or you could even use it on little minor wounds in other places in a pinch, you know, like ears or faces or things like that. Um, I would say nail trimmers good to have again, in case of some kind of nail

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issue that needs to be trimmed back thermometer and lube so that you can take their temperature if you need to. If you have a long haired dog, I would say probably good to have scissors or clippers on hand, just in case something gets stuck in their hair, you know, whether they like rolling gum or, um, whether they have a poop situation that you have to fix under their tail, then they're done that. Cause I have Shelties, um, never fails that that happens. Like while you're at the agility trial, you're like, Oh no. So yeah. Um, and of course, if you know that your dog has any like chronic or recurring issues, especially if they tend to be related to travel, if we're talking about travel stuff, like, you know, stress, diarrhea, or motion sickness, or things like that, then you could certainly ask your vet again about having meds on hand for that particular problem that you could give if needed, if they're comfortable with that. Awesome. So that's sort of the topic of the webinar a little bit. Can you share a little more just kind of on what the webinar will be about? Kind of what you're covering? Definitely. Definitely. So it is, um, kind of good timing, I would say for this webinar, just with the current state of veterinary medicine being what it is. So the webinar is targeted specifically to people who are traveling with their dogs, like for weekend trips and things like that, and may encounter minor medical issues or emergencies when they're out of town and may not have access to their regular vet, um, or may not, maybe not any vet at all, you know, super close by. And the reason that we, you know, did that originally, or kind of thought that would be a good topic is that, you know, dog sports people take weekend trips all the time, right? You know, lots and lots of us that go out of town for, for the weekend for agility or rally or confirmation or nose work or whatever trials you're doing or seminars, things like that. So that was kind of our starting point for putting together this webinar, you know, was just thinking about what kinds of things would be useful for you to know if you're staying at a motel, you know, somewhere out of town with your dog for an agility trial or something similar and they get sick, right? Or they get hurt. You know, what do you do? How can you be prepared for that? But honestly, a whole lot of the information that I'm going to go over in that webinar is going to be useful to anybody who would like to know more about, you know, deciding whether your dog needs to see the vet or not for this problem, or how can

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you manage basic first aid stuff on your own, you know, either, you know, until you can get to the vet or if it's pretty minor, instead of going to the vet, you know, just depending, um, what kind of stuff to pack in your dog's travel kit. If you're going out of town, we do also talk about emergency first aid procedures. So like CPR and, you know, what to do if your dog is choking, which obviously we hope that you'll never need, but, um, definitely some peace of mind in knowing that at least you'd have some idea of what to do if something ever did happen. So I would say that, you know, even though it's kind of targeted and geared a little bit towards, you know, traveling with your dog, a lot of it is going to be pretty applicable to, um, anybody who just would like to know more about that stuff, even if you're not traveling. Yeah. So I also mentioned your class coming up in the intro. So you've got your class, normal or not, um, common behavioral disorders back on the schedule for December. Um, so I want to talk about that a little bit. If somebody has a dog who does some odd things, let's say, what are some indications that it might be more than just a quirk and might mean that there's actually an underlying behavioral disorder? Yeah. So that's a really good question, right? Because lots of dogs have quirks, you know, or do weird things. Again, I have Shelties, so I get it. Um, just like us, right. A lot of us may have our own little quirks and things too. And that doesn't necessarily mean there's anything wrong with us. You know, it's just the way it is. So just the fact that like, you know, Hey, this thing that my dog does isn't necessarily normal quote unquote, you know, or common doesn't necessarily mean that it's a problem. Right. And a lot of how we look at that comes down to, you know, is this something that the dog just does occasionally or is it happening a whole lot? You know, does it seem like they're enjoying it? You know, do they seem happy when they're doing it or do they kind of seem like they don't know how to stop? Um, you know, what does their body language look like? You know, are they relaxed and having a good time or do they seem like they're upset? And then we also look at like, Hey, you know, is it causing problems for the other pets or the humans in the household or not? Right. So those are some of the things that we think about. Obviously some of that can be pretty subjective and a lot of it is going to depend on the specifics of the situation, but at least those types of questions give us a starting

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point when we're trying to look at, you know, a particular behavior case and say, Hey, is this thing my dog does, is this concerning or is it probably not a big deal? Do, um, all actual behavior disorders require intervention and then how, how can you kind of tell what might actually benefit from a treatment? Yeah. So honestly, the main thing we look at is whether the behavior we're talking about is causing a problem or not, you know, for the dog or for anybody else, right? So is it interfering with the dog's ability to function normally and do normal things or is it impacting their quality of life? So for example, if you have a dog who let's say chases his tail, sometimes when he gets excited, right? Not super uncommon. We definitely see that sometimes. Um, if it's pretty occasional and he just does it kind of when he's real excited, that may be a funny little quirk that's like, yeah, he does that. He chases his tail and grabs it when he gets excited. No big deal. May not need any treatment at all. But if that escalates to the point where he's doing it all the time, like, wow, he like doesn't want to play. I can't get his attention to like chase his ball or he doesn't want to get petted as much, or he doesn't want to sniff things on his walk. Cause he's too busy chasing his tail. You know, if he can't do normal dog things or if he can't settle very easily because he's too busy doing the thing that you're worried about, then that's more of a behavioral disorder, right? That we would say needs treatment at that point, because the dog probably isn't very happy like that. You know, they, you know, probably would, would prefer to be doing other things with their time if they could, if they understood how to, how to do that. And there's a good chance with something like that, that the humans in the household are not very happy either. So we're, we're trying to help both of those things. Can you talk us through, um, an example or kind of what kind of disorders you maybe see most often? Yeah. So I can definitely give you kind of a recent example of, um, that kind of issue that we were just talking about. So I had a client that I was doing, uh, that I've done a few remote, um, sessions with that is, I forget where she is actually, I think somewhere out West maybe, but, um, she has a little Sheltie named Piper and, um, her dog's very cute. And she originally got in touch with me because she was like, Hey, I have this Sheltie. And she like gets all freaked out about a lot of things around the house, you know? And of course your first impression is like, yep.

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Like, you're just like, yeah. Like, you know, she barks and spins and I'm like, yeah, yep. So, you know, anybody out there with a Sheltie is like, uh, yep, they do that. Like, you know, that's a thing with the breed and it is, but here's the thing, right? So talking to this person, she's really nice. Um, she's a really like savvy owner. She does a great job with this dog, but she's like, yeah, it's like, cause I was like, so tell me about, you know, what, what some of the, you know, the triggers are for this behavior, you know, when it happens. And she's like, Oh God, like where to start? She's like, well, there's getting ice from the ice machine, feeding the fish, loading the dishwasher, closing the dishwasher, standing up off the couch to walk into a different room, going down the stairs, get like, just kept going. It was like everything. It's like every single thing in life that they do around the house. This poor dog just like has a meltdown about. Um, so it's like almost constant, you know, cause another thing I'll ask a lot of times in cases like that is like, well, what, you know, how, if you had to ballpark it, you know, how often is this happening? Are we talking, Hey, she has a meltdown, like maybe two or three times a day or, you know, more than that. And she was like, Oh God, if I had to count, she was like, maybe 20, like maybe 25. It was like, it's constant. Yeah. And she has a really hard time calming down apparently. So she said after she gets upset about something, she may just trot in circles around the dining room table for like 30 minutes. Um, like before she's able to settle, you know, it's like really extreme. Um, so that's a good example, right. Of how like, yeah, we can absolutely see variations of that behavior that fall under the heading of like, Oh yeah, it's a Sheltie. They do that. Um, and it's just kind of a quirky thing that, that they do, but there are, there are levels, you know, um, and something like that, like what this poor lady is dealing with, with her dog is really much more extreme, you know, than the, the typical, like, Oh, that's just kind of quirky Sheltie behavior. Um, so that's a case where absolutely some intervention is warranted there, you know, in terms of behavior mod and, and probably medication and things like that. So those were all, you know, some things that we talked about and, you know, looped her bed in about medication options and, and that kind of stuff. But, um, so, and some of the interventions, like just as an example for that particular dog that we talked

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about were, um, she is on medication, which is helping her quite a bit at this point. And we also talked about just, you know, increasing her, um, the level of mental enrichment and exercise that she's getting each day and finding things that are kind of lower arousal for her. So this particular dog does really well with like scatter feeding in the yard, um, and things like that, that seems to help her a lot. And she's been working on teaching her like a stationing behavior, you know, on a platform that she can do while, while she's doing things that bother her while she's feeding the fish or loading the dishwasher, getting ice out of the ice maker, any of those things. Um, so that's kind of the approach that we often take with, you know, with cases like that, but that's kind of a, an example of behavior that could be just quirky or not, but a lot of it comes down to kind of the intensity of it and you know, how frequent it is, how extreme it is. Um, you know, is it bothering the dog? Is it bothering the humans? In this case, it seemed like yes. And yes, um, pretty clearly. I don't think this dog was having a great quality of life and certainly her, her people were not having a great quality of life either. So that's, those are the types of things that we often look at to kind of help us decide, Hey, is this, is this just like, yeah, that's a thing your dog does. Or is this an actual problem that we should try to, to see if we can improve. Um, and then I think the second part of what you had asked me about was kind of what things that I see most frequently. Is that right? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So I would say the things that I tend to see most often, um, probably I would say the most common things would be things like leash reactivity, either to people or dogs or both. Um, definitely really common. I see a lot of like fear aggression towards visitors, you know, strangers in the house. Um, those were probably if I had to guess the two most common things that I see, but we also get a fair amount of, you know, separation anxiety, generalized anxiety, um, you know, dogs who are scared of storms and things like that, housemate dog aggression, owner directed aggression, um, compulsive behavior disorders are a little less common than a lot of the others. So I don't see them as much, but sometimes every now and then we see those two. Can you just share a little more about the class overall, kind of what you'll cover, how it works since it's not, you know, your traditional skills training class? Yeah. Yeah.

37:37

That's a, yeah, because it is definitely not the typical, um, kind of most common like format for classes that people are probably used to through FDSA because it's not really a skills training class. It's meant to be more of an informational class. So the format is going to be, um, mostly written lecture. And I think for, we have multiple like kind of short written lectures every week. Um, there's, I don't think there's one for every single day, but it's probably pretty close. There are not that many days that we don't have any lecture, but they're not super, super long. Um, and there are some video examples in there and places to illustrate things that we're talking about. And then the students in the class will have written homework assignments every week that are basically designed to help you think about how the class material may relate to your dogs or to, you know, dogs that you've known or worked with. So, you know, what do we do with this information? How do we apply it? What does it tell us maybe about our own dogs or, you know, this client dog that you worked with once or, you know, whatever. Um, the way that the outline breaks down is that, uh, the first week we talk about kind of normal versus abnormal behavior. So, you know, differences between training issues and actual like pathological behavior problems and why that matters. Um, we talk a little bit about fear and aggression and what makes those normal or not, depending on things like the context and intensity and all that. Um, week two, we talk about medical issues and behavior. So things like chronic pain, GI issues, hormonal issues, all that good stuff and how that can impact behavior or contribute to behavior problems. Week three, we talk kind of broadly about treatment for behavior problems. So things like operant conditioning, classical conditioning, how does it work? How do we execute a behavior mod plan effectively? How does management play into things? Why is it important? All that kind of stuff. In week four, we talk about, um, specific behavior issues. So we go through and talk specifically about like fear, aggression, conflict related aggression, predatory behavior, separation, anxiety, you know, different things, kind of a different topic each day, um, to kind of delve into those in a little more detail. Week five, we talk about meds, you know, how do they work? What kind of options are available? How do we decide like which med for which dog? And then during week six, we talk about things like, you know, prognostic factors, realistic goals, you know, depending on, you know, the type of

40:04

problem your dog has and how severe it is and all that kind of stuff. We talk about rehoming and euthanasia, which is always a hard topic, but something that I think is worth discussing in this context. And we do talk a little also about whether dogs with significant behavioral issues can still compete in dog sports, right? Cause obviously that's a topic that's going to be pretty near and dear to a lot of FDSA students' hearts. Um, so we talk about that, you know, is it safe? Is it fair to the dog? How do we decide, right? Cause obviously that's something that's going to be very much on a case by case basis. Um, so we do talk about that as well. The way that the format works is we don't have gold spots because it's not really designed to be like, I'm taking this class with this dog who has this problem and we're going to try to solve it in the six weeks. That's not really what it's about. Um, but the silver students, so we have silver and bronze levels and the silver students will have a homework thread. So similar to what gold students do in other classes where they're going to respond to all the written homework assignments. And we can kind of have discussion there about the class material and how it might relate to their particular situation. So it's not a class where I'm going to be like solving the problem that you're having with your dog, but I'm certainly happy to help you talk through any thoughts that you're having about your dog as a result of the class material that we're talking about and like how you might be able to apply that. And, you know, so you're welcome to kind of, I can help you come up with some of your own thoughts about how you might be able to help your dog, if that makes sense. It's not really like a, the type of class where I'm going to give you directions and, you know, say here is a training plan and here's what you need to do. It's more of like a, Hey, you know, let's, let's think about this and think about the problem that your dog is having maybe. And it's okay if your dog is not having a problem also, and you just want to take the class, that's also fine. Um, but it's meant to be, we talk about the class material and how it might apply, you know, to dogs in your life, whether it's your dog or a dog you've known or a dog you've worked with or something like that. Um, it's usually a really good class. I've run it a couple of times now and had a really good students, really good discussion in there. So, um, so yeah, I'm hoping it'll, it'll be another fun round. Like it has been the first couple of times.

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Yeah. So, um, I want to kind of round things out today with a last kind of general question. So if we were to kind of take all the stuff we've been talking about today and maybe drill it down into a key takeaway or one kind of piece of information you really want people to understand or walk away with, um, what would that be? Well, I would say probably from today's discussion, the biggest take home would be, um, to be patient with your veterinarian and their office staff during this difficult time. Um, I promise we are all doing our best and everybody is stressed. It's not just you for sure. Um, it's, it's hard for all of us right now, but I am also very, very happy to answer questions about any of the stuff we've talked about today in, you know, both the webinar or the upcoming class that we're doing. So hopefully I will get to see some of your listeners there. Yeah, hopefully. Well, thank you so much, uh, Dr. Jen for being a vet, for dealing with all of this, um, and for coming on the podcast. Yeah, no, thanks for having me. It's been fun. It is fun. Um, and we'll be back next week with Julie Daniels to talk about her recent work with Control Unleashed and the upcoming one-day conference on dogs with big feelings. If you haven't already, folks, subscribe to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzie Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzie for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by Benson.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chrisline. Thanks again for tuning in. Happy training.